Degree- worth the paper?

I obviously meant laity in general- OBVIOUSLY since I have said well over a dozen times that there ARE EXCEPTIONS.

But I hasten once again to add that those exceptions are infinitesimally small percentage wise.

But there have been some geniuses like Spurgeon who read 6 books a week who did it.

 

They still won't read it. If they did, they would not be able to keep touting anti-intellectualism...

 

Why does this have to be so in your opinion? I had a wonderful time in seminary. I learned a lot and sat under some wonderful men of God. The courses I took challenged me and helped me to grow as a minister. I am extremely blessed to have had the opportunity to go to seminary. I value the "piece of paper" that hangs from my wall. However, I would never say that it can't be done another way- meaning theological education. Nor would I ever say that my biblical knowledge must be superior and of greater value just because I went to seminary.

 

Okay

You asked my opinion, and I gave it. If Greek makes the pastor better, than so be it! I can obtain the greek and hebrew meanings through the assistance of excellent on line programs and PC software.

I wish you luck in whatever direction you are led.

 

Havensdad, do you want to take turns. I'll get this one- you get the next one that mischaracterizes what we are saying.

Havensdad has said several times that there are some who get tremendous training outside a seminary- but he further elaborates that even those people leaned upon scholars they read after that DID HAVE AT LEAST A SEMINARY DEGREE.

 

Thanks, and God bless.

 

The fact is that the Bible clearly states that the training of a minister is to be done by Godly teachers. Not self study.

As far as the other, if you are not more knowledgeable, on average, than the unschooled layman, then your degree was an act of horrible stewardship, wasted time, and arrogant aggrandizing. The only way that Seminary studies (and the money expended) is valuable is if it is superior. If you can get just as good of an education without it, then the superior choice would be to engage in self study, and use those thousands of dollars to finance mission and evangelism efforts.

 

Pastors should be properly trained, whether this means having a few degrees or not is not really the point.

 

Yes Luke by page five you had conceited errrr conceded that there are exceptions to the rule...however your posts through the first five pages stuck to the proposition of grouping all laymen together.

As for these percentages that you seem to have the inside track on...would you care to enlighten the rest of us with a source for this claim?

 

Absolutely. I believe the best way to do it in modern times is Seminary, but I have already stated that an apprenticeship model under a very Godly and knowledgeable Pastor/Teacher, would be an acceptable Biblical alternative.

The operative statement is "be trained"...it is a function of the local church, in training an individual for ministry (whether directly or by proxy), not simply "self study."

 

I do like the apprenticeship model. I think the Apostle Paul would like this very much.

 

GROSS mis-characterization. Luke said, in his OP...

"people who are thoroughly theologically trained and educated tend to have a stronger grasp on the Scriptures than those who have no formal training whatsoever in this matter"
(Emphasis mine, for clarification).

He has been saying this all along, you just chose not to listen, so you could beat your drum...

From personal ministry experience, I would say that 9 out of 10 laymen in the church are completely ignorant of scripture. Unfortunately, in the Baptist churches these are usually the people that end up on all of the committees.

Of the remaining 1 out of 10, probably half have gotten their theology from some pet televangelist, rather than the scriptures, and their own pastor/teacher.
The other half tend to be wonderful men of God, deacons and such, with no formal theological training, but that can quote the Word, and study it regularly. Strong Christian men and women, no doubt, but still tend to be less knowledgeable about doctrine than the Seminarians/pastors/professors. There are very rare exceptions to this (I know ONE), who have managed to accrue a large amount of knowledge on their own.

 

No they did not. Look at the OP.

I said seminary education TENDS to make one more knowledgeable than laymen.

I said it in the very first post.

 

This is post number 30.

Do you wish to continue trying to argue that I have changed my tune late in this thread or would you at this time like to yield that you are arguing straw men?

 

And here are these posts:

You can't have it both ways Luke...you either believe one way or the other

 

It seems to me saying that there is "no way" indicates a pretty strong sentiment on your part.

 

Every one of these statements is consistent with the multiple statements where I clarified that there are exceptions.

Even those who learn Greek, etc... outside of a seminary learn it at the feet of SCHOLARS whom they at the very least read after.

And those represent an infinitesimal percentage of laymen.

This is thoroughly consistent.

It is plain for anyone to see.

You have been shown clearly by two people that you are mischaracterizing me. When will you cease naming your straw man after me?

 

It is so incredibly obvious that I meant laity in general since it wasn't two line above that that I said seminary education TENDS to give one a firmer grasp.

 

What seems incredibly obvious to me is that your position varies as it suits you. Sometime there is "no way it is possible" other times "there are exceptions."

Still waiting on your support for this claim:

Hate to be a bother but isn't this also another exaggeration?

Don't I count as anyone? Because it isn't plain to me. And certainly I should count if anyone should seeing as I have an MDiv from a big six seminary! :thumbs: (Please read in all duly intended facetiousness)