Here is some dialog on another board:
Did God Need Mary’s Permission?
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by mojoala, Jul 22, 2006.
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Only the mind of man could dream up such a question. The question itself is faulty on its face.
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I think God chose Mary because he knew she was willing to serve God in whatever he asked of her. God knows our minds and what we are thinking. He would not have chosen someone who would not have been willing.
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What Marcia said. :thumbs:
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2. Does this not possibly lead to the worship of Mary instead of giving all the Glory to God for his sovereign choice?
3. I don't believe God needs Mary's, or anybody elses, permission to do anything. I affirm the Westminster Confession of Faith when it says:
Joseph Botwinick -
I didn't say he chose her for her "innate goodness." I said he chose her because he knew she was willing and was apparently the woman God wanted to be the mother of Jesus.
I agree God doesn't need permission for anything but I also do not think he would have chosen a woman who not have been willing to serve God or who did know God. For example, Jezebel. I cannot see God choosing someone like her to be the mother of Jesus. -
Joseph Botwinick -
I don't think God was searching, trying to find someone who was willing, but he knew she would be willing when she was told what would happen. This does not mean she was innately good at all! -
from another post:
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Would you say that being willing to believe is something good...and where did that goodness come from? Was Mary good or did God save her and make her capable of goodness?
Joseph Botwinick -
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The Greek does not say 'Favored One'.
The Greek word "kecharitomene" is translated (in the Vulgate) "gratia plena" which is "full of grace." This is a slight mistranslation, as it doesn't quite capture all of the nuances of the Greek. But "favored one" is worse as instead of trying to capture these nuances, it ignores them altogether.
Kacharitomene is the perfect passive participle of Charitoo meaning "to grace." A less poetic, but more accurate translation of it would be,"Having-Been-Graced-One." Someone has suggested that this is an accurate translation, "Full of grace that you have received." Replacing "grace" with "favor" would only be appropriate if it were to be translated something like "Completely Favored One." In which case one must ask: what did Mary do to earn this favor? The response would, of course, be: "Nothing. We cannot earn God's favor". This favor must therefore be given by the GRACE of God. Indeed, this "favor" IS the grace of God which is revealed by the meaning of the word "charitoo."
G5487
χαριτόω
charitoō
khar-ee-to'-o
From G5485; to grace, that is, indue with special honor: - make accepted, be highly favoured.
G5485
χάρις
charis
khar'-ece
From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).
G5463
χαίρω
chairō
khah'ee-ro
A primary verb; to be full of “cheer”, that is, calmly happy or well off; impersonal especially as a salutation (on meeting or parting), be well: - farewell, be glad, God speed, greeting, hail, joy (-fully), rejoice.
Hence the proper translation should be "Full Of Grace" -
Another view on "full of grace."
NET Bible commentary