On another thread which is now closed, Brother Bob made the statement that he had never seen Jesus go around killing anyone. I corrected his theological error by stating that since Jesus was God, that he had indeed killed many people. I was then accussed of justifying the murders of Calvin by this. This is not true. I argued that God was fully righteous in all his judgments while Calvin was not as a sinner, thereby showing the difference between God and John Calvin. I was then accussed of calling Jesus a murderer. This is not true as I believe that all of God's judgments are holy and just. A murderer is unholy, sinful, and unjust.
I then asked several questions which were never answered by Brother Bob. I will repeat these questions here and hope that he will attempt to answer them from a Biblical perspective instead of giving us an opinion poll of his buddies of all different denominations at the local gym:
1. Do you believe Jesus is, and always has been God?
2. Did God, in his righteous judgment, ever kill anyone?
3. Do you have a problem referring to Jesus as God?
4. Do you think God was justified in killing all those Egyptians and many others?
I would answer yes to questions #1,2, and 4. I would answer no to question #3. If Brother Bob would like to answer these questions honestly without telling lies about my statements, I would love to hear his honest opinion about this here. I am also open to hearing other peoples' answers to these questions as well.
Let's try to keep this thread civil.
Joseph Botwinick
Did Jesus ever kill anyone?
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Joseph_Botwinick, Aug 9, 2006.
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IMO, this is silly. The problem here is that when you say "Jesus" people will think "incarnate". Those people will say no, He never killed anyone, and they would be right in their own minds. But I don't see how you can separate the trinity such that one hand isn't equally responsible for what the other is doing. Could anyone actually claim that Jesus disagrees with the Father regarding the people God has killed? [sarcasm] "Gee, Dad, I wish you hadn't done that. Now that guy on BB is going to blame it on me." Yeah, I can see that. [/sarcasm]
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Or..do both have the same expression and nature?
It seems that If we show The Son has wrath and is Judge just as the Father, then we would also have to say they both express wrath, fear, judgement, love and mercy in the same way.
In Chrsit...James -
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Lamb. Wrath. End of discussion. -
2. No
3. No
4. God did not kill them, the bible says they drowned. I'd blame the red sea -
I think such discussions are better left 'undiscussed.' I don't think anyone comes away better for engaging in this type exchange. My .02 cents.
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How did Ananias and Sapphira die? At whose command did the angels kill those in Egypt who were not passed over? If not even a sparrow falls to the ground apart from God's will, how is it that any man dies outside of God's will? -
Who let the water go, when they were in the middle of the sea? -
Joseph Botwinick -
Bad Red Sea!
Then He shouted, "Come on, Egyptians! Hurry up! Get out of there! Run! You have to understand, I had to save my people, but you were just too close and I didn't want you to get to the other side. Please, hurry back, before... Uh oh! Ooops! My bad! Sorry guys."
God could have let the Egyptians make it to the other side.
God could have sovereignly kept the Egyptians from chasing after the Israelites until they had finished crossing the sea, and let it fall back without any fatalities.
Oh, wait. None of that actually happened. -
I will ask one question.
1. Was your God dead while Jesus laid in the tomb, Did your God die on the Cross? It was Jesus in the NT and did you ever know of Jesus killing anyone? When God said "this is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased" was He talking about Himself or His Son?
I really hope several of those who don't get involved in C/A debates will at least answer these questions. Maybe I am in the wrong place. -
He was of course talking about Himself incarnate. Are you suggesting that Jesus and the Father are not one God, one being? -
You then do believe your God was dead?
Oh, I believe in three and these three are one in essence and power. -
Instead of questioning the Trinity, why not answer like this.
Jesus in his human body when he was on earth did not phycally kill anybody. However Jesus is God and God has killed people. But when I referre to Jesus I am speaking of the physical human body of God. -
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The human body that is God the Son died and was reserected.
Please explain "one in essence and power" I believe they are one God one Being. -
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One omnipresent God who presents in three forms. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. All three are one being we know as God. When the body of Jesus was dead the Father was alive and well. Jesus' spirit (who is God) was alive. Only His body, the body God took was dead.
Are you saying that Jesus did not die or are you saying Jesus is not God?
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