Richard Ploch: How I avoided the military during the Vietnam War
Was this common? There have been recent articles about how many pastors are retiring all of a sudden. I've wondered about some over the years myself.
Did Vietnam Draft Boost Clergy Careers?
Discussion in 'History Forum' started by Jerome, Jan 26, 2018.
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I was forced into retirement by my doctors in 2012. But the timing was not due to a "ministerial" deferment. I served in the US Army from 1965 through 1972. If I was avoiding the draft I did a pretty poor job! :D
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"but I have always carried an uneasy sense of shame that another, probably a young man from a low-income family, took my place "
Or you would been replaced by young rich boy who was a brat.
Now, my question for Richard Ploch : Have you had a rewarding ministry?
As a Vet, who had orders for Vietnam - I hold no grudge against any man who properly did not serve.
My concerns are those who left the country and particularly those who protested overseas. -
[QUOTE="Salty, post: 2385330, member: 5656"
I hold no grudge against any man who properly did not serve.
My concerns are those who left the country and particularly those who protested overseas.[/QUOTE]
Likewise. I have nothing but contempt for the cowards that ran. -
Baptist Believer Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I had a professor who told our class that in the very early 1970s a lot of "hippies" and people who were against the draft suddenly received "a calling" to ministry. Many of those persons didn't last past the end of the Vietnam War.
When he first started at the seminary, he and his wife were invited by other seminary couples to a wife swapping party. He kept thinking he was mishearing the invitation and asked several times about the purpose of the get-together since he was certain he was mishearing the details of the invitation. He declined and figured out who to whom to report this event to in the administration of the seminary, and they were already aware of it and were working out a way to sort the persons who naively-accepted from the ones who knew exactly what it was about. He said a lot of people ended up suddenly leaving the seminary that semester. -
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Likewise. I have nothing but contempt for the cowards that ran.[/QUOTE]
I am mixed on that one. If you want American men to shed blood, don't build the war on lies. Vietnam was nothing but a waste of life. -
Likewise. I have nothing but contempt for the cowards that ran.[/QUOTE]
I am mixed on that one. If you want American men to shed blood, don't build the war on lies. Vietnam was nothing but a waste of life.[/QUOTE]
Everybody has an opinion and everybody has 20/20 hindsight.
Doesn't change a thing. Cowards they were and cowards they remain. -
Carpo,
Some indeed were cowards, but some fully understood what was happening and wanted no part of it for moral reasons.
Eisenhower, Kennedy, LBJ, Nixon, and Ford were just flat out bald faced lying to the American people. Its not hindsight. Those with their eyes open could see it at the time. The war was built on lies and fought on lies. The people of Vietnam did not want anything except freedom from colonialism. They got arms from Communists because that is who they could get them from. We (USA) made the war about "the spread of Communism." Russia and China wanted no part of that war. We escalated it to the point they could not stay out. I fully honor the brave men who served there, but I fully understand why many would not go. If you could pick the chief coward and traitor from the war it would be a tough call between LBJ and Nixon. Blindly following is not patriotism.
The entire war was simply stupid. It all started because France wanted to keep a colony in virtual slavery. I am glad Vietnam overthrew French rule. We should have kept our 2 cents out of it. -
Cowards run to another country. Brave men stand and fight for what they believe, either in the military or out of it.
I can't stand LBJ and Nixon, but neither were traitors. The traitors were the likes of Jane Fonda and John Kerry and the cowards that fled to Canada.
A different view on the question by another who was actually there:
"First, in order for something NOT to be qualified as a 'waste', there has to be benefits, as in cost-benefits analyses. Appropriately, if there are no benefits, then in hindsight or post mortem analyses that something will be classified as a waste, as in expenditure of time and resources with no returns.
Now, if we are going to try to qualify the Vietnam War either a waste of time and resources or not, we have to ask, not just what benefits but also what kind of benefits were there. This is where contentions begins as each side strains to convince the other of its position.
For example, Lee Kwan Yew in his memoir stated that without US military involvement in Viet Nam, more of Asia's countries will fall to communism. In other words, in Lee's analysis, Singapore received unintended benefits from US military involvement in Viet Nam. Lee also said that the Vietnam War was effectively a halt to communism expansion in South East Asia LONG ENOUGH for the rest of the region to get their acts together on what kind of countries they want to be. Would Singapore be the country it is today if it fell to communism ? Not likely. But would Singapore fell to communism in the first place if the US was not involved ?
Benefits do not have to be tangible, measurable, quantifiable, and finally documented in order to be perceived as benefits. Speaking as an American and a USAF veteran, Americans take our rights and freedoms for granted only as long as threats to them are physically distant. But for those of us who actually faced those threats live and quite 'in your face' daily, it it tough not to see those rights and freedoms as benefits precisely because it is obvious that their loss can be so quick to happen.
Were there any TANGIBLE benefits to the US and her citizenry for US military involvement in Viet Nam ? No. But for many Asians during that time, they never had the kind of physical life Americans took for granted, so whatever INTANGIBLE benefits that came their way via US military involvement in Viet Nam, they will take them. Lee Kwan Yew understood that and was willing to speak on behalf of other Asian leaders who felt the same.
The statement that the US 'created' South Viet Nam in 1955 revealed an ignorance of the details that came before the Vietnam War. For starter, did the questioner know that it was Ho Chi Minh who asked France to return to Viet Nam ? Look up Ho-Sainteny Agreement. To use the cliche 'a journey begins with a single step' one could credibly argue that the deal between Ho Chi Minh and Jean Sainteny was the first step to war.
I fled communism when I was too young but when able, I did my part in resisting its advances in Europe. I had in my hand the navigation cartridge for an F-111 on Victor Alert. In MY analysis, had the US remained steadfast to South Viet Nam as did to South Korea, probably there would be tangible economic benefits to both US and South Viet Nam the way it is today with US and South Korea, and this question would not be posed."
Roderick Xuan, Vietnamese refugee from 1975 and student of the Vietnam War
As an aside, a few times over the years I have run into Vietnamese who were also there, one of whom served in the ARVN and another who narrowly escaped the slaught of 3000 civilians by the North Vietnamese in HUE during TET of '68. They can't thank me enough for doing what we did. I'll take that. Their opinion counts. -
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Especially 18 yr old draftees. People who weren't there at all and didn't have to make any choices seem to be the ones that run their mouths the loudest and the longest. -
As I said, study what IKe and JFK were told by their advisors. They were told what would happen and that is exactly what happened. That is not "hindsight."
The war in fact did more to advance Communism in the region than to slow it. That is hindsight.
By your faulty logic, we must no longer discuss The American Revolution and American War Between the States. All the men who fought in those wars are dead. -
It's disgusting. -
When you get mad, your reading comprehension skills go out the window. -
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