Praise the Lord for that man's salvation. Bob there is one thing that I do not ever take lightly and that is the need for our churches to take the gospel to a lost and dying world. I may believe in predestination, but I pray that the Lord would save the elect and elect some more!
Discussion of Predestination
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Baptist_Pastor/Theologian, Aug 9, 2006.
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Brother Bob,
Thanks be to God for your ministry. Get some rest. Work comes early tomorrow, so see you soon. -
Where's Rodney King when we need him? Can't we all just love one another? :love2:
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Actually, I read somewhere that Stephen King is a Christian. -
This thread can discuss the original topic or it can be closed. It's up to you.
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scripture
We love to live on little pieces of God's word and not live by every word that comes from the mouth of God.
There is many that cannot understand predestination with God not wanted that anyone perish, but all to come to the knowledge of truth. So they change what all men are and not trust in God.
If God wants to use those He forknew that would not believe or believe for His purpopse then so be it.
To me God has given to us our faith and what to believe by His word, but it is our choice in what we do with it.
God has predestined that believers be saved, by His word, That whosoever believes in Jesus shall be saved, but this faith without deeds is dead.
I know it wasn't my belief that saved me, for that is not what the law requires of me. My sin requires death.
So I am saved by grace, not by my works, for it is what Jesus has done that saved
me.
We will our life for Jesus, no longer to save ourselve. We live for Jesus so others may see our deeds and praise our Father in heaven
1 John 2:10
Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him to make him stumble
1 Corinthians 10:
31So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. 32Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God— 33even as I try to please everybody in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.
1 Corinthians 8:
9Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol's temple, won't he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? 11So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall. -
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You must not read into the Scripture something that is not there. It does not say that God in his infinite wisdom found a hard case and worked him into an overall strategy. It says he hardened their hearts. He cause them to be obstinate. I would argue that like the rat in the maze God can do this without violating human free moral agency and at the same time he can perfectly maneuver and influence the process without ever directly violating his holy nature as well which even more important to emphasize. -
Proverbs 1:28-31 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me: For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD: They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof. Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.
Isaiah 65:12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.
Isaiah 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.
Romans 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
Your turn. -
Blammo, perhaps you can add to these passages or make a point because I just do not see the problem that maybe you see with the passages for my position. -
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Our own understanding
You may not understand how this works, but God does want all men to be saved and come to te knowledge ogf the truth.
We must trust in God and not our own undersatanding -
If they don't why don't they? If the answer is because they choose not to, then does God still not realize what he ultimately desired?
Also, does not your view ultimately present God as an unsuccessful universalist?
Do you not attribute any credit to God for being able to accomplish his will, because evidently your view places God in a position where he is entirely dependant on man?
One last thing, since there have been those now who have received Christ, this is a hypothetical question. But when Christ came into the world and died on the cross and rose from the dead, was there a possibility than no one would respond to the gospel?
I understand that God has forknowledge according to your view but if the offer of salvation is truly open does that not require the possibility that no one would have responded to the message? -
We use words like Foreknowledge and Predestination like God is controlled by time. Time was invented for mankind to give us some frame of reference. God is not trapped in any dimension of time be it past,present, or future.I wonder if it is possible for us to think in terms of there being no time dimension and how that would effect our theology.
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God's will
God's will is for us to believe in Jesus and be saved, or not to believe and be condemned.
God has set before us life and death, so choose life so you may live.
God did not incline our hearts to believe as dort says, but places before us life and death, and He desires for us to choose life -
The issue here is not that we must believe the gospel, but that in order to believe the gospel their is a work that God must do through the Holy Spirit. The point here is not that man must believe the gospel, the point here is understanding this, apart from the work of God through the Holy Spirit no one can be saved.
I understand your simple approach to God. In your view you cannot manage to understand how both that the Lord is good and that God can allow for evil to accomplish a purpose. God is not the author of evil. God does not violate the free moral agency of human beings. But never fail to understand that God is perfect and his will is perfect and he accomplishes his will.
If you are at peace with holding a view riddled with inconsistencies then by all means you are free to choose to believe that if you would like. However, please do not interfere with a discussion that seeks to find reasons for believing. Too long has the church just said this is the way it is, take it or leave it. NO, the truth is not unattainable. Jesus said he is the way the truth and the life. He said you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.
Just because God's ways are not our ways does not mean that God has not revealed his will to his children. His children hear his voice and he calls them by name. -
Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit that does the work and gives us the ability to make the choice is in the words of Jesus, for it is His words that is Spirit and life.
God is soverign as in He places before us the consequences for our choices and what He says' goes. Believe in His Son and be saved and not and be condemned.
God places our blood in our own hands. -
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