You have a mind of your own. Use it. Don't try to lump everyone into the same boat. I find that quite degrading if not slanderous. There are hundreds of kinds of Baptists, some of whom I would never associate with.
BTW Do all Catholics believe in sacrificing chickens to Mary like the ones I saw?
Now speaking about minds, the mind (brain) is part of the body (that which will be redeemed). Will it be made perfect? Will it be made perfect like Christ is perfect? Will you know everything? Will you be omniscient? Yes or No?
If your answer is yes, you commit blasphemy.
If your answer is no, you admit you will not be perfect.
DHK
Do Christians become perfect with the Resurrection of the Dead?
Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Kathryn, Aug 4, 2003.
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DHK -
DHK, you say:
The Holy Spirit has a mind, yet does not have a body or a brain.
Romans 8:27
and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
Isaiah 65:17
"For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind.
God Bless -
Hi Trying2Understand,
Im Baptised..and I got a plaque to prove it.
I would have been baptised no matter what Church or denomination I was attending. I have been raised baptist from a child. It happened to be baptist when I chose to be baptised.
How can any baptist church prove any article of faith based on something that hasnt happened yet.
It truly saddens me when I discover any church that includes truths that must be followed that even God is not going to prove to be true in the believers life.
such as creeds that are related to the studies of eschatology and the afterlife..
unless its an independent church that states its own standards of truths. of which any church can.
as far as any church rejecting me..
If the Love of Christ is not there.
Why should I be.
Me2 -
What is the point DHK? You are insisting that you are 100% correct and to think otherwise is "blasphemy". You say we will not be perfect ever. Yet when I ask you if Baptists believe that their resurrected bodies will not be perfect you get indignant that I would even ask such a ridiculous question, and compare it to asking if all Catholics sacrifice chickens.
So, it comes down to just being your own personal interpretation and not Baptist teaching or belief. So, why insist it is correct, and to believe otherwise "blasphemy"?
(See my above post) The mind is a part of the soul and doesn’t stay in the grave. This is more of a “soul sleep” belief, that I don’t even think you believe in, if you really thought about it.
God Bless -
We are talking of the resurrected body here.
DHK -
The point is that there are different kind of Catholics. Not all of them believe or practice the same thing. Case in point. Do you sacrifice chickens to Mary? I can be as unreasonable as you can, when you pointing to heresies and implicating Baptists, by saying "Do (all) Baptists believe...
Do you get the point?
Your question has been answered in my above post. You can asnwer it. You either believe Christ is a brainless mindless zombie, or you believe that he has a brain that enables his body to function.
DHK -
If you want to talk about Jesus Christ, He has a body and a soul and his mind is a part of that soul. He is true God and true man.
God Bless -
The resurrection brings to life the body, and that includes the brain, which gives the body the power to think, such as it gave Einstein the power to think. Will your knowledge in Heaven be limited. You bet it will! Will Christ's be unlimited? Absolutely. He is God. He is infinite, omniscient. Even in heaaven we will still be learning, thus we will NOT be perfect.
DHK -
DHK you say:
So DHK, do Christians become perfect with the Resurrection of the dead, the "redemption of the body", that is the question here?
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DHK, you say:
You remember correctly. To answer otherwise would be blasphemous. Our bodies will be redeemed, but not perfect.
I ask:
Do Baptists really believe their bodies will be redeemed but not be perfect?
You say:
You have a mind of your own. Use it. Don't try to lump everyone into the same boat. I find that quite degrading if not slanderous. There are hundreds of kinds of Baptists, some of whom I would never associate with.
BTW Do all Catholics believe in sacrificing chickens to Mary like the ones I saw?
Then you accuse me of asking you if all Baptist believe some “outlandish heresy”. You are telling me this is what you believe. What was the outlandish heresy I asked if Baptists believe? It is what you are telling me you believe.
Back to the issue at hand:
No where did I say Jesus Christ is a brainless zombie. You made that one up on your own. He has already ascended body and soul into heaven. He is perfect. True God and true man. We are talking about the Resurrection of the our bodies, the Redemption of the body. When we die, the mind is already with the soul, it is not the brain, it is not in our body in the grave. Will we be perfect, Yes. Do you believe God can not make a perfect creature? Yes or No.
God Bless -
DHK -
God Bless -
DHK -
God can do what He pleases within the bounds of His nature and His Word. He will not make a perfect creature as He is perfect. To do so would be blasphemy. Let's keep the context within the bounds of the resurrection, which you brought up.
DHK -
At the Resurrection of the Dead we will be made perfect. We will not be perfect Gods. We will never be God. We were not made Gods and never will be. There is one God. We will be perfect creatures, perfect Human Beings capable of knowing, loving, and serving God forever and ever. This is not blasphemy. This is the plan of salvation for man.
God Bless -
But let's resume the real nature of this topic and why the confusion. The confusion results in your refusal to accept the Biblical definition of the word "perfect." In your mind you think that the word "Perfect" has never changed, that it means flawless, sinless, holy, etc. But that is not what the word meant 400 years ago when the KJV was translated. That is not what it means in the Greek. It means "complete," or "mature."
To speak of a perfect body in Heaven is correct, in that it will be complete. It won't be missing any parts. It will be glorified, transformed, redeemed, changed; it will be complete.
Now apply that to 1Cor.13:8-13.
"When that which is perfect (complete) is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. It cannot be speaking about the Resurrection body here. It doesn't make sense.
What does make sense is this:
When the completed Bible is come then that which is in part--the temporary gifts shall be done away.
DHK -
We do not "become perfect when we die" and no text says that we do.
We receive heavenly, incorruptible, eternal bodies at the resurrection "the redemption of the body" Rom 8, 1 Cor 15, 2Cor 5.
However our character (minus the sinful nature of course) is exactly what it was in this life.
As 1Cor 6 points out - evil, sinful behaviors are those of the lost "Be not deceived" (1Cor 6) the text says - if we make it our practice - to participate in those things - we are not saved.
In Christ,
Bob -
Kathryn,
Lord Jesus Christ is God, the Son. God is infinite.
and the spirit of Lord Jesus Christ is within you.
Me2 -
What do you do with this verse then?
1 John 3:1. Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
We will be LIKE Him.
AND:
1 Cor 15: 35. But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36. Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37. And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38. But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43. It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56. The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
That passage does NOT work with your theory.
On the contrary, your theory doesn't seem to work with ANY text!
Where are you getting the proof of this theory?
God Bless,
Kelly
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