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Featured Do the aborted and babies that die . . .

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 37818, May 4, 2021.

?
  1. No.

    76.5%
  2. Maybe.

    5.9%
  3. Yes.

    11.8%
  4. No opinion.

    5.9%
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  1. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Where?
     
  2. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    “Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.” Acts 10:34–35 (KJV 1900)

    Only the born-again can work righteousness.
     
  3. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Those verses do not say there are those who are born again that have not heard the Gospel. Not even a little bit.
     
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  4. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    So all babies go to hell?
     
  5. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
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    I'm sorry, but do you know how stupid that sounds?
     
  6. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    I have said, and will continue to say, we do not know the answer.
     
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  7. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps to you. But Cornelius had the fruits of the New Birth long before he heard Peter preach. Forget salvation by works and it makes perfect sense.
     
  8. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and you do not know what Cornelius did or did not know.
     
  9. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    If you are Reformed, then you know the new birth precedes understanding the gospel. So isn't our mission to get the word to the born-again who will understand and obey? It only condemns the rest.
     
  10. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    He performed works of righteousness, only the born-again can do.
     
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  11. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    So you are hyper-calvinist. I don't believe new birth precedes understanding/accepting the Gospel. I belieieve it is simultaneous.
     
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  12. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Then you don't believe the doctrine of total depravity and are not really Reformed nor a Calvinist.
     
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  13. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Ok Dave....Ok... You are wrong, but ok...
     
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  14. poor-in-spirit

    poor-in-spirit Active Member
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    Oh I think our Lord has shown us enough clues to see that the vast majority of the Heavenly Host will be children of all ages before puberty.

    Matthew 18:1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

    Our Lord equates the new birth in adults to the safe innocence of a child. A reversal from the wide path of destruction back to the heart of your youth.

    Our Lord used the illustration of child-like faith as the basis for true salvation in adults. He makes it clear that unadulterated, innocent faith is all that God notices.

    Mark 10: 15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

    So the real question is when does a human being become accountable to God for their personal belief or unbelief?

    in the above passages and the below, God's Word is consistent.

    Eccles 12:1 Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them;

    John 1: 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

    Romans 1: Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

    In the same context of Romans Chapter 1 the Lord mentions retaining Him in our knowledge which indicates that all people are born with the inherent knowledge of Him. The fake world system of Satan steals this knowledge of God in most.

    There is no reference in Scripture anywhere of children being condemned or being in need of repentance, nor is there one single example of a child repenting and expressing verbal belief on Christ in the New Testament and obviously children were around the Lord at times. These are purposeful omissions folks. However, there are plenty of examples of men and women repenting and believing on Christ in the New Testament. Jesus says that children inherently know Him, once again please read with a focus on verse 14 and 16:

    Mark 10:13, And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.
    14, But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
    15, Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
    16, And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.

    That is it! no- go and sin no more; no- your sins be forgiven thee, no- thy faith have saved thee. You know, the things our Lord would tell every adult that came to Him and believed. Jesus simply hugged the children and blessed them. Heaven will be full of children. Will they rule and reign with Christ during His Millennial Kingdom? No, there will be no earned crowns which indicate rulership under our Lord, but they will be in Heaven. The multitudes in Heaven that our Lord references in Revelation are the children who have died in the womb or before the age of accountability. The minority in Heaven are and will be adult believers.

    Prior to 12 years old, there is little mention of our Lord's childhood (another purposeful ommission). Puberty is the age at which our Lord became Spiritually aware of His Purpose (another hint) that also coincides with the jewish tradition of bar mitzvah (another hint).

    Children
     
  15. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Study Reformed Theology and the 5 points of Calvinism. Only when you agree can you claim that position.
     
  16. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    So where does 12 years old come in? And how do you know that is when Jesus became spiritually aware of his purpose? That's read into it, the text does not say that.
     
  17. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    I have Dave, that's why I said you are wrong.
     
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  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Well if it is like you understand, what would be my wrong understanding will not make perishing ones not to perish.

    Now the perishing perish because their names are not in the book of life, Revelation 20:15. Now those who are saved, being saved does not cause one's name to be placed in the book, but rather prevents one's name from being ever removed, Revelation 3:5. One's name is in the book before one is saved.

    Children of a saved parent are made holy by having a saved parent, 1 Corinthians 7:14. So based on your view, at best, if such a child dies before coming of age to believe, the child would be spared having his name from being removed at death.

    My view the sole reason any names are in the book is because Christ died for the whole world, 1 John 2:2, Isaiah 53:6, Jeremiah 31:31-34.

    Even though names are in the book for that reason, sin was nevertheless the reason one's name could be removed before death or in the Judgement, Exodus 32:33, Psalms 69:27-28, Matthew 12:34-37, 1 John 3:19-21, Romans 2:11-16.

    The prerequisite is to be a child. Mark 10:15, John 3:1-4.
     
    #58 37818, May 8, 2021
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
  19. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    People make the bible say what they would have it to say. But Paul says God makes from the same lump vessels of mercy and vessels of wrath before they are born or ever made a single choice.
     
  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    You do not agree with Reformed Theology on Total Depravity or as stated in the 5 points of Calvinism.
     
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