As I know pastor Stanley was divorced, but found out that Dr Charles Ryrie was also?
Not saying that either men would be disqualified from their service unto the Lord, but wouldn't a higher biblical standard apply to those in "officiasl ministry" positions?
Wasn't there a situation with believe Focus on family, where co host with Dr Dobsen had to resign due to his divorce?
Do We Have Differeing Standards regarding Divorce IF laity/Clergy?
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by JesusFan, Sep 19, 2011.
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It all depends on how one interprets the scripture. Is it referring to divorce or is Paul speaking of "a one woman man?" As to who is right or wrong, I'll just let all the dogmatic experts pontificate. It can get as ugly as the Calvinism vs Non-Calvinism debates.
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To me it's so much depends on what happened and when. If he was divorced before he was saved, it would be a much different story than if he was being divorced this week.
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My understanding on this topic is that IF fits the category of "scriptually divorce", that would NOT disqualify the person from ministry, but suggest a down time to 'regroup!"
Think though that we do see that there is a lack of being willing to apply biblcal mandates in case of "not lawful' as that would disqulaify onw from service IMHO!
Also mindful of when Jimmy Swaagert had his 'problem", and the official AG policy is to have a year 'down time" and have counseling, but local church only wanted 3 Months...
Different standards for different folks, it seems! -
Marriage, in Canada, must be looked at from two different angles. First, we, as ministers, look at divorce from the biblical angle. Divorcement did happen in biblical times and there are rules for that divorcement. The marriage vows call for a life together forever regardless of circumstances. Then, we have the laws of the land. Marriage and divorce come under the laws of the land. A minister is accepted under the laws of the land. My ordination is registered with the government and my approval to do weddings comes under provincial laws and regulations. In this sense, I am a civil servant. I can refuse to perform a wedding, but I must obey the law when I do. I do not know how it works in the USA, but I believe we differ. We had to have a licence for each province, and turn in our licence when we moved from one province to another.
Personally, I required the couple to be twice-born. I also required them to attend counselling sessions. Their banns were also read from the pulpit for 3 successive Sundays. Anyone objecting to the marriage could submit their argument to me, and the dispute would be settled before the wedding took place.
Another vital point is that I personally kept in touch with the couple at least once a year by letter after the wedding. Most problems crop up within 5 years and they can be dealt with from the beginning.
Do ministers have a greater responsibility in their own marriage? Indeed they do. We are not exempt from personal problems. Matter of fact, we are prone to problems if we are serving the people as we should. This is why there are so many problems with "preacher's kids". Sadly, the wife almost plays both roles. This is hard on her and it takes the preacher some time to realize this and act responsibly.
Cheers,
Jim -
1 Timothy 3:1-5 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
A man needs to be an example as a pastor, and know how to give counsel. My question for a divorced pastor is: If a young couple [or old for that matter] is having marital problems [and they all do], and they come to you for advice, what would you tell them? Don't do as I do, do as I say? I counsel couples before they are married, and one of the points I make to them is to take the world divorce out of their vocabulary.....If their pastor is divorced, that's kind of hard to do I would think.....I personally think you make yourself a stumblingblock, but I know [remembering the Peter Ruckman crowd] I'm probably very much in the minority.....Again, pastoring and teaching and evangelism to me are different areas of service, so if a man feels the calling, there are areas to work!
God bless -
Now, if a pastor has recently been divorced, I really think that there is a bigger issue but one of our pastors was divorced before he was saved. He had a very rough life before he was saved and even in his early years of salvation, he was not good. But God was merciful and worked hard on him and he now runs our recovery ministries. He can identify with these men because he's been there. :) -
The greek term used in the qualifications means a one woman man, meaning the pastor is to be dedicated to one woman as her husband. Paul was writing to folks who belived in having multiple wives and his point to them was that a pastor should be dedicated to one woman.
Nothing is even mentioned about divorce and remarriage in the passage. What Paul did say, 1 Corinthians 7:7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
Paul says by permission he says this that all men should be as he and Paul was unmarried. Notice He says all men, so that would include the pastor.
1 Corinthians 7:32 But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:
33 But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife.
The unmarried man cares for the things of God where as the man who is married cares for God and his wife. If a man is married to multiple woman he would really have less and less time to dedicate to the Lord and so Paul said the pastor should have only one wife if he was married. It is clear Paul saw it as a pastor without a wife would dedicate more time to the Lord, but he also knew that many men couldn't be as he was so they should marry. -
Think that we need to stay from both extremes on this issue, and follow the Bible!
Extreme on one side is IF divorced, for ANY reason, than disqualified from ministry work
other one is Grace covers it.period, so still can pastor/teach others etc!
Think biblical moder is IF divorced due to adultry and not willing to have other repent/forsake, than still qualified to be a minister/taecher etc
just seems that the Church either punished punitively, or else acts like 'no problem!" -
Counseling should be required by all Bible believing pastors. But I would require at least 6 sessions - and only one per week. aka not rushing!
I think your other two statements are excellent! :thumbs:
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[SIZE=+0]What is your definition of Laity/Clergy and what standards are you refering to?[/SIZE]
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If his wife had left him because he'd been having an affair with his secretary, then I would say he is no longer qualified.
your mileage may vary. -
an affair with his secretary would have nothing to do with marriage,,it would be a sin anyway, wouldn't it?
Cheers,
Jim -
Isn't it odd how so many divorced pastors were such cherubs while their wives were invariably shrewish jezebels. -
The husband pastor can drive his wife away just by doing his pastoral duties. I can understand that. Thus it is very important to mind family first and church second. No one ever said the ministry was easy.
Cheers,
Jim -
I did see this link (mind you it it written from an extremely fundamentalist position), and it states nothing about another man. -
My thoughts again in a different light: A Pastor in front of his congregation is divorced, and a young couple is having marital problems [they all do], is this not a seed [thought] to the husband/wife: well, the pastor made a mistake [by marrying the wrong person] and everything turned out ok for him?
I personally think it is a stumbling block--again, I was taught in training when you counsel young couples before they marry, they are to take the word divorce out of their vocabulary--because it's easy to give up, give in--it would be difficult for a divorced Pastor to give that counsel.
Peace -
God bless -
Does it matter that the pastor I spoke of was divorced over 25 years ago and has been married to his current wife for 22 years and they have 2 grown sons, one of whom is married? We're not talking recent history here. -
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