I see Cals minimalizing God’s attribute of being love to justify their doctrines, denying His Omnipotence toward His ability to create creatures with the human volition to freely choose and still fulfill His plan in love, and putting His Omniscience in a box claiming He is unable to know all while allowing for creation of the design of His creatures with true free will.
Do we worship the same God?
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by MB, Sep 5, 2019.
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There was an interesting book (a study) titled America’s Four God’s: What We say about God & what that Says about us by Christopher Bader and Paul Froese. The book was written in 2010 using 2005 demographics from a study of religious views. What was interesting is how a people’s experience plays into their view of God and the emphasis they place on various attributes.
Calvinists hold justice as the central attribute towards which all other aspects of God (to include love) acquiesce within the plan of redemption. This is because divine justice is the “problem” redemption has to overcome. Post-Beza Calvinism moved providence to the base of soteriology (something Calvin was reluctant or too indecisive to do). These things come into play when we consider how and why Calvinists believe what they believe.
And this is not only a “Calvinistic problem”. We all have these presuppositions which can affect how we minimalize some doctrines while magnifying others, resulting in distorting passages. I think this is evident when we look at free-will. Contemporary Arminianism distorts divine sovereignty because of what it sees in the freedom (and accountability) of mankind. Open-Theism is a direct result of magnifying some aspects denied by some people to the point it rejects the traditional definition of "omniscience".
It is interesting to discuss. -
Yet, He still fulfills His plan in righteousness and judgment to save some and cast the rest into hell... taking His Omniscience, Omni-presence, and Omnipotence out of the box that man has placed them in, and putting them in open display within the pages of His word.;)
He not only knows all, but has planned for things so far in advance that it would make mere men's minds stagger under the immense load of His every plan-within-a-plan-within-a-plan.:Notworthy
Scripture specifically tells us that man's will is not free, as true free will was abrogated in the Garden... and mankind's will is now corrupt and cannot be trusted to do anything good towards God, not even to seek Him.
Why?
Because the heart is hopelessly corrupt...darkened and alienated from God.
With that corrupt heart comes the will and the mind.
They march together, in tune with each other...the heart leads, while the others follow.
Again:
Psalms 10:2-4.
Psalms 14:1-3
Psalms 58:3.
Ecclesiastes 7:20
Ecclesiastes 9:3
Jeremiah 13:23.
Jeremiah 17:9.
Matthew 15:18-19.
Mark 7:20-23.
John 3:19-20.
Romans 1:18-32.
Romans 3:10-18.
Romans 3:23.
Romans 6:6-7.
Romans 6:20.
Ephesians 4:17-19.
Ephesians 4:22.
Free, unbiased will ( true free will ) is an illusion not supported anywhere in God's word.
Since man's heart is hopelessly corrupt and desperately needs to be replaced by a merciful God ( who is the only one who can do it ), the will is guaranteed to follow.:Thumbsup
In the Bible it's called the new birth.
" Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. " ( John 3:3 ).:)
The heart of man is the problem...not the will. -
I often tell people if Calvin was right about God, churches are packed today with idol worshippers who hate God with a passion.
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Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk -
More importantly, is this a way of you telling me not to break into your house or to come well armed?
The bottom line is that I am not telling people what to do, although I am confident others are more than willing to prescribe for me what I "should" do and that prescription alien from Scripture. I am not saying that I will not prevent someone from harming my family. But I am saying that I would not intentionally kill someone for trying to harm me or my family. At one time I think I had that level of hate for these hypothetical villains (hypothetical not because these types of people do not exist but because the situation itself is hypothetical). But I can't say that I've harbored a hatred for anyone (real or imagined) since I've been saved.
I suppose the true test of the matter would be for someone to break in to my home. I have several guns (at one time I hunted, I often go to the rifle and pistol range, and I have shotguns for skeet that are not particular about where the end of the barrel points when the trigger is pulled). I do not know if my anger would get the better of me if placed in certain situations, but I do know the principles to which I strive to live.
It is very difficult for me to imagine Christ advocating a life spiritually antithetical to the life He lived, but perhaps not so hard to imagine how that life would look as people live it out for us daily. -
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But it also does not necessarily support pacifism (it could refer literally to love and hate rather than action). A soldier who shoots an enemy, for example, could do it out of hate or could reluctantly out of a higher duty.
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