You still don't get it do you.
1 Timothy is a pastoral epistle. It is Paul writing to Timothy, pastor of the church in Ephesus, giving him advice on how to keep order in the church, among other things.
This has nothing to do with the practice of Jesus. This has nothing to do with personal choice. This is about the mandate of a church saying it is wrong for their people or any people to abstain from foods or to abstain from marriage. Using Christ as an example, therefore, is ridiculous. What church authority was Christ submitting to? He is the Creator and submits to none of his creatures.
When Jesus died on the cross the ceremonial law, including the dietary laws of the Jews as written in Leviticus 11, were all done away with. We are no longer under the Law. If you want to start a thread on that by all means do so, but don't derail this thread by switching to that topic.
True. That is what the RCC does.
Only if this is your personal decision. If this is mandated by a church or any other equivalent organization then it is a doctrine of demons.
Abstinence from marriage is celibacy. The other doctrine of demons is abstinence from food. Both are doctrines of demons.
You ignore the entire passage.
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; (1 Timothy 4:1)
--It is the last times, in these days. People are departing from the faith. And they are giving heed to seducing spirits especially doctrines of demons.
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; (1 Timothy 4:2)
--They also speak lies in hypocrisy, and their consciences are seared just like a hot iron does a good job of searing (as in closing a plastic bag).
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. (1 Timothy 4:3)
--These are just two examples of doctrines of demons:
1. forbidding to marry, and,
2. commanding to abstain from meats (OE word for food in general),
which God BTW, has created to be received with thanksgiving.
If one forbids to marry they are commanding them to abstain from marriage or commanding them to remain celibate. Remember these are only two examples. There are other examples that could be added to this list, areas where the church has no business sticking their business.
Jim Jones mandated that all his members drink kool-aid. Do you agree with that? IT is not abstaining but requiring them to eat. It is the same sort of thing--an obvious doctrine of demons. The church cannot force these things on its members.
Doctrines of Demons - 1 Tim. 4:1-2
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Dr. Walter, Feb 4, 2011.
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Ok this sorta gets to one of my Bible topics again -- so...
However some things to point out.
In a sane moment DHK suggest we actually look at man-made tradition to see if that fits the qualification for the 1Tim 4 "Doctrines of Demons".
A careful exploration of those specific man-made traditions would be needed to see if they fit or if they do not fit.
But in your post - you suggest that maybe the Word of God itself is a doctrine of demons (speaking perhaps of Lev 11).
To me that is atrocious -- but of course DHK joins you at times on that same point -- accusing God's Word of being "doctrines of demons"... so at least you are in good company with that suggestion.
But to your credit you admit to the detail of the doctrines of demons - being the teaching of demons. And few people are so confused as to point to the Bible itself and declare IT to be "the teaching of demons" though Apparently DHK is willing to do that in the case of Lev 11 - and perhaps you are too.
But the more readily you admit that 1Tim 4 is really talking about "The teaching of demons" I think the more you will hesitate to point to God's Word - as the teaching of demons.
Before seeing this thread I would have "liked" to hope that Christians would not be pointing at the Word of God an bending-wrenching 1Tim 4 so that it calls any part of God's Word the "Doctrine of demons".
But perhaps it is just a sign of the times we live in that such is no longer the case.
in Christ,
Bob -
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What did I say? I gave you background information on Paul's epistles to Timothy to help you understand the background. It is fact, not opinion:
"1 Timothy is a pastoral epistle. It is Paul writing to Timothy, pastor of the church in Ephesus, giving him advice on how to keep order in the church, among other things."
--If you don't believe me there are plenty of resource material that you can go to and look it up for yourself. This is factual data not open for debate. The fact that you are ignorant of it is pitiful.
"The passage states that the doctrine forbids them from taking certain foods... as in the Mosiac Law -
--Yes, you did refer to the Mosaic Law. If you want to start a thread on it do so, but don't derail this one. My point stands.
--No one is speaking of the candidacy of the priesthood.
We are speaking of the requirement--the requirement of celibacy which the Bible says is a doctrine of demons, that is the requirement of celibacy, the requirement to abstain from marriage.
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. (1 Timothy 4:3)
--The RCC forbids to marry. That is the exact phrase used. So do away with the word "abstinence" if it confuses you. They forbid to marry. It is a doctrine of demons. Your point is moot. It is a red herring.
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. (1 Timothy 4:3)
--Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from food.
These are the two doctrines of demons, both of which the RCC practice.
You play a game of semantics instead of admitting truth. I am not the one confused, obviously.
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TruthGiver,
Are you truly giving the Truth? or are you here to sow discord among the brethren?
I have not seen one single thing wrong in Dr. Walter's posts in this thread.
So what if he posted 3000 posts over the last year? If the Lord laid it on his heart to post what he has, he is not at fault.
And I wonder who you are to publicly rebuke a long standing member of this forum when you only joined last month and only have 5 posts? ... and every one of your posts is the same copy and paste attack.
Your agenda is obvious. -
Fred,
These are just a couple of the reponses I have recieved privatly.
(1)Truthgiver,
Obviously you have had some experiences with Doc Wally. I for one, will rarely engage him due to his attitude and almost borderline hate with respect to anyone who disagrees with him. Where have you “had dealings” with him?
Thank You
(2)Thank YOU SO much for this information.
So I know that there are those on here that are sick of the way he talks to people, among other reasons others would want factual information such as this. 90% of the reason I posted this was for him to get off the internet and spend time with his family and Wife! The other 10% was because I felt you all should know. I hope he checks his priorities, Wife, Church, family then uses some free time for his private internet hobby.
Truly,
Truth Giver -
Well, since it is obvious that you joined this forum with only one agenda, I can tell your stay is not going to be long on here.
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TruthGiver,
The general rule of thumb is, when you feel someone is in err concerning the Gospel, attack the message, not the messenger.
Attacking the messenger will get you nowhere.
So, what has Dr Walter preached in this thread that is contrary to what the Word of God says? -
I am not here concerning what he believes in. If you all want to continue to be swayed into his desired agruments and ugly, pointless debates, so be it. I am here to just shed light on some truth about his desired path as a Pastor. I will allow you ALL to adjust to it accordingly.
This is my last post about this matter.
Truly,
TruthGiver. -
Adjustments need to be made, that is certain. But as far as I can tell, they are not with Dr Walter.
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I do not know of any Pastor in Oregon belonging to Faith Baptist Church, who is an accountant! How he can possibly speak about what I do in my own home or in my church or who is in my car when I drive to church or how long I preach or what I do when I come home is beyond me.
I have never ever been run out one city much less five cities. No church has ever asked me to leave as a Pastor. Every church that I have pastored, I have voluntarily resigned against the expressed desires of the members including the church in Ohio.
I have clearly stated on this forum that I do not hold a "doctorate." I hold a B.A. from Lexington Baptist College and two years toward a Master's degree in Mid-America Baptist Theological Seminary, Memphis Tennessee which I finished with a Master's of Theology Degree from Landmark Baptist Theological Seminary, Dallas/Fort Worth Tx. I am enrolled in the doctoral program at Landmark Baptist Theolgoical Seminary in Dallas Texas.
Concerning my wife's medical condition, I don't think you can stoop any lower than what this man has done. I don't know how in the world he can evaluate how I treat my wife, or what I do at home and how he can much such value judgements.
Obviously, "truthgiver" has one objective and that is to destroy me and my reputation publicly. I don't know this man but I do know one thing - he is wrong about most of what he has said and how he can make such personal value judgments about me, my wife, what goes on in my home, in my church, or past churches should give the readers a clue of his agenda.
However, if that is his agenda - then - it is an easy thing to destroy someone publicly but it is hardly the job that a professing Christian should be involved in. Obviously, this person does not like me and wants to destroy me. I wish I only knew for what reason? -
WM -
If you are not here for honest debate and discussion you are not welcome. This is not a platform for gossip and sowing discord among the brethren.
Go somewhere else and air your grievances. Your entrance fee will be refunded as you exit the door. -
Indeed, most false doctrine includes misinterpretations of scripture. Of course the scripture is not demonic but what is demonic is the misinterpretation of that scripture.
Those who are in opposition to 1 Timothy 4:1-5 as applicable to ANY and ALL who FORBID marriage and/or abstain from certain foods simply are perverting the scriptures for their own belly.
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