13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
IN WHOM YE TRUSTED, AFTER HEARING WORD OF TRUTH, AFTER THAT YE BELIEVED.
How can you say we were predestined when right afterward Paul says we trusted after hearing the Gospel and after we believed? That denotes an action that one had to first believe before being saved. Yes, God knew our choice beforehand, but man chooses to believe or not. :)
Does God Choose Man or Man Choose God?
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Miss E, Jul 21, 2020.
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And I've talked about that verse before in John. Jesus was talking directly to His diciples and he was talking about choosing them to start the first Christian church, not that he chose them to be saved. -
If God responds to what man does in granting salvation, that is works.
If woman responds to what God has done in her life with faith in Jesus, that is grace.
peace to you -
What made you so different that God chose to reveal His word to you when billions of people live and die without God revealing His word to them?
What made you so special?
peace to you -
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67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? -
First, I have no problem with you choosing to believe God knows everything imaginable, past, present and future. That is the most widely held view of the meaning of God being "all knowing." I have another view, but I have yet to come across anyone willing to consider their view of "all knowing" is in error. So let us set that aside as well.
So now let me address the actual issue I hope to discuss: "God has given man the free will choice to choose to follow/worship God or not."
You are correct, although I quibble with the phrase "free will choice" because God can limit our choice (hardening our hearts as in Romans 11:7) and we can also, by the practice of sin, harden our own heart such that we loose the ability to understand, believe and be saved. So I prefer the phrase "limited autonomous will."
Your next point, God does not compel our putting our faith in Christ, is also correct. Jesus desired all men to be saved, but not by compulsion, which would result in universalism. Rather God wants all people to be saved in accordance with His redemption plan, i.e. everyone believing into Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. Thus God saves believers, but God decides who are the believers if and when He credits a believers faith as righteousness, or not. Two key points, (1) if people could not put their faith fully in Christ, God would not say He credits our faith. (2) If our faith was the result of compulsion via irresistible grace, it would not need to be credited, God would again not take that action. -
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Get behind me Satan. :rolleyes: -
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As far as the use of the phrase "limited autonomous will" it comes from the verse that says we make plans but God directs our steps. Thus we can make an autonomous choice within the purview God allows. Thus soil #1 of Matthew 13 has limited the choice because gospel understanding has been lost. However the other 3 soils could understand and like the gospel message, but 2 and 3 chose not to fully commit. -
So know we consider special revelation. God revealed His Word to you, and you responded with faith.
Please answer this question. What is it about you that God would reveal His Word to you (special revelation) while billions of people live and die without ever hearing the gospel.
Why are you special? Why did God chose to reveal His a word to you?
peace to you
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