Do you believe every Christian has the exact same level of intimacy in their own personal relationship with Christ?
Do you believe that every Christian since he is saved has nothing further to do to enhance his relationship with Christ?
Are all those verses, directed toward the saved, and calling them to a closer walk with their savior, really just cloaked calls to salvation for unbelievers?
Does God Know you?
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Lacy Evans, Jul 4, 2007.
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God Bless! :thumbs: -
Matthew 7:21-24
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
If salvation is dependent upon knowing Him in the Matthew 7:23 sense, and that knowing is dependent upon doing, then you have a works salvation. -
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I just think that it is possible for the warning in Matt 7:23 is a warning for Christians to avoid being lukewarm and never allowing God to "know" you experientially as we commune with him in obedience, growth, maturity, prayer, worship, Bible study, etc. -
Lacy and J Jump seem to want to take the latter option - imagining that "depart FROM ME workers of iniquity" is God's funny little way of saying "ENTER My beloved in to the Joy of your Lord -- enter heaven for all eternity in fellowship with Christ whom you NEVER KNEW for salvation is APART from knowing Christ"
BY CONTRAST in John 17 "THIS is ETERNAL life that they might KNOW THEE and Jesus Christ whom thou has SENT".
- John 17:3
"This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
Lacy and J Jump seem to "imagine" that the text says "AND THIS IS ALSO eternal life EVEN IF THEY DO NOT KNOW you OR Jesus Christ" - John 17:3
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Jhn 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
It is a which came first, the chicken or the egg? First knowing, then the good fruits.
God Bless! :thumbs: -
NO OTHER name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved. Salvation in NO other way but Christ and Christ alone.
"DEPART FROM ME you workers of iniquity I NEVER KNEW YOU" is NOT the way to save "CHRIST IN you the hope of Glory" NOR "WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM might not PERISH but have everlasting LIFE".
Jesus said UNLESS you eat MY FLESH and drink MY BLOOD you HAVE NO LIFE at all.
To imagine SALVATION APART from a relationship with Christ is to imagine a false gospel.
in Christ,
Bob -
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James Christ did not say in Matt 7 "The BAD tree BECOMES a good tree by first producing GOOD FRUIT" ...
you keep using the twist of logic "GET saved by works" that J Jump and others INSERT INTO Matt 7 to try and justify their wild claim that "Depart from Me workers of iniquity I NEVER KNEW YOU" is to be twisted around into "COME ye blessed of My FAther enter eternal life and heavenly bliss as those workers of iniquity that I never knew for salvation is APART from Christ".
Instead of falling for that cleaver trick they are using - look at the details IN the TEXT with objective and unbiased eyes. NOTICE how it matches PERFECTLY with what Paul shows us in Romans 2:3-16???
in Christ,
Bob -
SHOW THAT "I never knew you:" MEANS "you came to Christ and were born again -- having CHRIST IN you the hope of Glory" SHOW that this is the meaning of "WORKERS OF iniquity I NEVER KNEW YOU"??
Until then we have John 10 directly dubunking you wild empty assertions.
14"I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me,
Christ argues there that HE IS the door and that there is ONLY ONE way to salvation. You are arguing for salvation APART from knowing Christ!!
in Christ,
Bob -
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The "salvational" relationship is understood. At least I thought I was addressing believers.
Our relationship doesn't end when we get saved. That is not all there is. And in fact it better not be, or we'll be like the ole' boy that buried his one talent in the ground.
Reminds me of modern movies where the boy meets the girl, then finally the get married, the credits roll and some "happily ever after" music starts playing.
There is a small handfull of Bible verses that are addressed to unbelievers.
The rest are for us and explain how we are to live now that we have the indwelling Holy Spirit, power over sin, a high priest to sanctify every work we do, a perfect Bible to teach us and ground us, a local body in which God's gifts move to our edification, a great reward to shoot for, and a perfect promise that we will be in no wise cast out.
Lacy -
YOU claim that SAVED BELIEVERS, SAINTS are the "workers of iniquity that Christ never KNEW and that must DEPART ". YOUR argument is that SAVED in this case is being identified as "A worker of iniquity - one whom CHRIST NEVER knew".
That is your story telling sir -- not mine.
in Christ,
Bob -
That is bias sir - not objectivity.
That is eisegesis - not exegesis!
I have no problem saying that once a person is saved they they face the issue of perseverance.
in Christ,
Bob -
Thank you! God bless. -
That is cutting out half the Bible to solve the other half - - - sir:tonofbricks:
(I don't know about all that isotopysis and excrementis stuff.)
My Dear Departed Bro-in-law was United Pentecostal. He would argue till the cows came home that God was ONE. He couldn't accept God's threeness because his math didn't add up. So he rejected half the argument.
What you have is a Christian being able to somehow out-sin the Blood of Christ.
What you have is an ineffectual savior that has to say "just kidding" after having said, "It is finished!"
What you have is classic Roman Catholic doctrine on salvation after accusing me of teaching Purgatory.
Lacy -
Trying to spin your insert as "biblical premise" is cleaver - but not Bible.
How sad!
Cleaver - but sad.
You find yourself in an impossible corner and now your cleaver retorts are all that left as you ignore the very DETAILS of the text!
How transparent to the unbiased objective reader.
HINT: In 1john 2:2 we find that Christ "is the ATONING SACRIFICE for our SINS and not for our sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" NIV.
Now find the "Atoning Sacrifice" in Lev 16 and your problem is solved!
That was you going there and me calling you on it.
in Christ,
Bob -
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