Eternal Security is a bit beyond the scope of this thread but we can start a new thread and debate it there if you like.
Lacy
PS. James asked "How do you get eternal bliss out of 1000 years in Hell?" I'm curious about that one too.
Does God Know you?
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Lacy Evans, Jul 4, 2007.
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God Bless! -
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Hey I just realized that I finally went over 2,000 posts!
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Workers of iniquities are unsaved. Psa 103:10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities. Psa 130:3 If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand? Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was]bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Hbr 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
As you can see, ALL iniquities are covered by the blood of Jesus and therefore the Matt 7 "many" cannot be Christians with iniquities yet to be paid for.
UNLESS, you ignore these scriptures.
God Bless! :thumbs: -
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
What is the therefore there for? You would have to conclude that hearing these sayings and doing them are somehow connected with the previous idea of being told to depart from Him.
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1Cr 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
If you have Jesus Christ as your foundation, your rock, you are wise and therefore will not be found a "worker of iniquities". PLUS a bonus! Any works you might have with iniquities are forgiven and cleaned up in the refining fire. Praise Jesus! What a wonderful Savior!
Here rewarded (since it is not a gift) must be speaking about our works of iniquities. No?
Even so, either the scripture is true or it is not. Either iniquities are covered as it says or they are not. You cannot on your own decide that some iniquities (Matt 7's) are not covered for the believer. The proper scripture interpreting scripture conclusion would have to be Matt 7 is NOT speaking of believers BECAUSE other scripture states CLEARLY that all iniquities are covered by the blood and NOT held against believers! There is just no way around this fact. That begins at rebirth and is a done deal!
I am sorry, but you just have to accept the wonderful grace and mercy that is in Jesus Christ. It is hard to fathom, but His ways are indeed special and not our ways! Praise Him!!
God Bless! :thumbs: -
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Come one come all - lots-o-fun.
in Christ,
Bob -
And then what? Heaven?? -
If Christ means "suffer in hell like it is some kind of purgatory purging you of venial sins THEN you will be welcomed into heaven" I have never seen that in scripture.
BUT IF you do find it - I believe there are about a billion Catholics that will be glad to have finally found it in scripture. -
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You have a Father who told us to act like Him (In Matt 5) and forgive 70X7 holding us to a higher standard than he holds himself.
- They reject Eternal Security.
- They think you have to believe on Christ and then be really really good to get into "The Kingdom of Heaven":tear:
- They reject a literal kingdom. (The Kingdom is Heaven or the Church or salvation, etc)
- There is no saving virtue in chastizement in Hell. It is not a sacrament.
- You can't buy your way out, so there is no money in it for them
- It has nothing to do with salvation.
- Nobody gets out until Rev 20:15 at the GWT
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Bob said --
"IF HELL is on the road to HEAVEN there is NO MENTION of this in the Gospel!!"
You are arguing that ROASTING your loved ones in torment for "a while" instead of "eternity" and NOT giving them heaven is THE SAME as going to HEAVEN!!!???
Quesiton: Is there ANY LIMIT to the wild off-beat arguments you will offer on this topic???
I have God "DESTROYING BOTH body AND SOUL in fiery hell" Matt 10:28 with the SAME kind of "DESTROY" that he applied "AS AN EXAMPLE of undergoing the PUNISHMENT of ETERNAL FIRE".
What I DON't HAVE is "God PRESERVING both BODY AND SOUL in fiery hell to send the wicked on their way to HEAVEN"!!
There appears to be no limit to what you will eisegete INTO scripture on behalf of your ever-ready bias.
in Christ,
Bob -
You have transformed HELL into your own PURGATORY sending the saints to HELL and then on to HEAVEN!!
The difference then is that the Catholic HELL is real -- it is for the wicked and DOES NOT lead to HEAVEN.
The DIFFERENCE then is that Catholic Purgatory has MERCY by the ADDTION OF their man-made doctrine of INDULGENCES where you only have PURGATORY-in-hell purging wicked saints to send them to HEAVEN!
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Well, I don't know how to argue with one who rejects the words of God and re-words it to their own liking.
I just don't understand this type of reading the scriptures. The word cannot make it any clearer yet there is an insistance on saying "God does not mean "hath not" God really means "maybe".
What can I say to that? "Well steaver, I know that the scripture states "hath not" but it does not mean "hath not". :tonofbricks:
And I am to somehow say "Oh gee James. thanks for clearing that up, I was thinking God meant "hath not" and now I see that He meant "maybe". Maybe God wasn't real sure what He was saying either!
(24)..Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: (25)..And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Now compare that to the workers of iniquities.....
(26)...And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Do you see the difference? The foolish man does NOT have the foundation of Jesus Christ. These workers of iniquities CANNOT be saved people.
God Bless! :wavey: -
What was missing from the criers works? The foundation of Jesus Christ!
(24)..Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: (25)..And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Now compare that to the workers of iniquities.....
(26)...And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
The criers had no rock, no Jesus Christ. They had sand.
The criers had no works meet for repentance.
Why do you declare that viewing the passage in regards to eternal salvation would make the passage a works-based message? Jesus explains why their pleas of wonderful works was rejected. No foundation in Him and He never knew them. "Depart from me, ye workers of iniquities" is a dirrect point to their own cries that they should be accepted because of their works, nothing more. To the contrary of a claimed works-based salvation view Jesus is decalring works will not save anyone.
Here is the key points;
1) they were rejected because "I never knew you" (period) Do not add "for your works".
2) they were answered "workers of iniquities" because they had wanted works to justify themselves before God APPART from any foundation in Christ.
I don't see how it can say anything else UNLESS you add and speculate, the very thing I get accused of.
God Bless! :thumbs: -
We disagree on eternal security.
So here are some questions. Please give scriptures.
- How much sin do I have to do, in order to overwhelm the power of Christ's blood and lose my salvation? (If your position is correct, Heb10:26 MUST teach that one willful sin can send us irrevocably spiraling into an eternal LOF)
- Can I ever know I am saved for sure, 100% positive that I will never lose it?
- If I can't know for sure, then how do I ever get saved, because knowing/believing that Christ paid ALL of my sin debt is part of being saved?
- What is meant by the phrase "Never thirst again"?
- Please prove from the OT scriptures that at least one Israelite who looked at the brass serpent, went back and was killed by the snakes.
- Please explain what the phrase "born again" means, and in so doing show how someone can enter back into the womb (Physically or spiritually) again.
- Please explain how requiring works to "stay saved" is essentially different from requiring works to"be saved".
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I absolutely agree with all of that!
In other words, even the sins we are chastened for (in this life or at the JSOC) are still very much eternally covered by the blood. But He chastens us nontheless.
Robert Govett
SS Craig
DM Panton
GH Lang
GH Pember
RE Neighbour
AE Wilson
JA Seiss
WF Roadhouse
Eric Sauer
GNH Peters
J. Hudson Taylor
Watchman Nee
Paul Radar
AG Tinley
Oswald J Smith
William P Clark
WH Griffith Thomas
Jessie Penn-Lewis
Phillip Muaro
JR Graves
Anthony Norris Groves
Joseph Mede
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