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Featured Does God Love the Seed of the Serpent?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Iconoclast, Apr 30, 2019.

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  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    GEN 3:14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
    15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

    Some have suggested God Loves everyone.Others believe God has a special saving love for His elect.

    We know God is good to all men;
    mt545 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

    However, Romans 5 tells us where the love of God is

    5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

    The seed of the serpent does not have the Spirit, so...
     
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  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Jonathan Edwards in the great work of God in the History of redemption offered this;

    It is manifest that Christ began to exercise the office of mediator between God and man as soon as ever man fell, because mercy began to he exercised towards man immediately

    There was mercy in the forbearance of God, that he did not destroy him, as he did the angels when they fell. But there is no mercy exercised toward fallen man but through a mediator. If God had not in mercy restrained Satan, he would immediately have seized on his prey. Christ began to do the part of an intercessor for man as soon as he fell; for there is no mercy exercised towards man but what is obtained through Christ’s intercession. From that day Christ took on him the care of the church, in the exercise of all his offices. He undertook to teach mankind in the exercise of his prophetical office; to intercede for fallen man in his priestly office; and to govern the church and the world as a king. He from that time took upon him the care of defending his elect church from all their enemies. When Satan, the grand enemy, had conquered and overthrown man, the business of resisting and conquering him was committed to Christ. He thenceforward undertook to manage that subtle powerful adversary. He was then appointed the Captain of the Lord’s hosts, the Captain of their salvation.
    Henceforward this lower world, with all its concerns, devolved upon the Son of God: for when man had sinned, God the Father would have no more to do immediately with this world of mankind, that had apostatized from and rebelled against him. He would henceforward act only through a mediator, either in teaching men, or in governing, or bestowing any benefits on them.

    And therefore, God’s destroying those enemies of the church by the flood belongs to this affair of redemption; for it was one thing that was done in fulfilment of the covenant of grace, as it was revealed to Adam: “I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head.” 616 This was only a destruction of the seed of the serpent in the midst of their most violent rage against the seed of the woman, when in the utmost peril by them.

    We read in Scripture of scarce any destruction of nations but that one main reason given for it is, their enmity and injuries against God s church; and doubtless this was one main reason of the destruction of all nations by the flood. The giants that were in those days, in all likelihood, got themselves renown by their great exploits against heaven, and against Christ and his church, the remaining sons of God that had not corrupted themselves.
     
  3. Rockson

    Rockson Active Member

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    Hold it now just one moment! You've just purposely steered away from the context of the text and you've shortened up the verses or didn't put down all that needed to be said.You cherry picked out verse 45...didn't mention 44 or 46 which would have shown you wrong.

    It didn't just say God is good to men! It said this,

    “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. You left out 44 above and went to this--> He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. Now verse 46 which you left out--> If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.Matt 5:43-48


    God clearly stated that we were to LOVE our enemies! Why? TO BE LIKE HIM! What is it about God which shows he LOVES his enemies? Because of what he does! He blesses them! So please my friend enough of this even suggesting God doesn't LOVE sinners. He even goes on to say loving sinners is the ultimate perfection of character. So are we to be more perfect than he? Or are we rather to be like him? I say like him for he loves sinners.
     
    #3 Rockson, May 1, 2019
    Last edited: May 1, 2019
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  4. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    All through the bible we see God protecting the godly line from the ungodly line.
    The flood, Sodom and Gommorah, all happen to protect and preserve the godly line.
    The seed of the serpent are not the objects of Gods love.
     
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  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    We are to love our enemies, and do good. God will repay our enemiesRom12:19.
    The goodness of God is meant to lead men to repentance.
    How did God savingly love the world of the ungodly by drowning them in the flood?

    Once I saw a tract that had Noah's ark on it.
    It asked, what is wrong with this picture?
    Was it that there was a worldwide flood that destroyed everyone outside the Ark? No
    Was it that Noah and his family were in the Ark? No.
    Then it showed a close up on the outside of the ark and there were life preservers on the outside of the ark saying, smile God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life.
    Then it said...what about that message on the life preserver?
    It illustrates the point.
    Can you explain how the worldwide flood showed a love for the ungodly, a saving love.
    Not a love of benevolence.
     
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  6. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    You are assuming the seed of Eve were humans. It is “the Word”

    You are assuming the seed of the serpent are humans. It is enmity against the Word.

    See this from our Lord:
    Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, and say, ‘If we had been livingin the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.” So you testify against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of the guilt of your fathers. You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?

    How does one answer the question Christ ask?

    Believe.

    All are condemned unless they believe.

    What your attempt seems to be is that the Eve “seed” are humans destined to be saved. That isn’t necessarily consistent for Eve had many more than three children. Only three are named, and not all three were good. Eve could not produce both that salted and unsalted.

    Seed in Scripture is that sown that grows and controls the core soul of humankind.

    The seed of serpent sown grows enmity against the seed of salvation (the Word - Christ).
    The seed of the Word growing in the prepared soul grows to harvest.

    The human is not the seed.

    The human is leftover dirt, dust. Not seed.

    A little bit about the Love of God.

    First, “God is Love.” Humankind created in the image of God did not loose the attribute of Love, but such love as God became as fallen as the rest of God’s “image.” Humankind can still love, but not in the fullness nor expression as God does.

    Second, God’s loved the of world (creation) is not a limited Love. As a result, He demonstrated His love while the creation could not.

    Third, that demonstration was not limited to only believers, for the seed is scattered not just on the prepared dirt.

    Fourth, the owner of the creation purposes the dirt, and all creation displays His glory.

    Fifth, God’s unlimited love does not make salvation unlimited, that is a false concept and denies the principle statement, God is Love.

    Sixth, God’s Love is displayed in what is prepared when this creation passes away. God prepared a place for the fallen to suit their animosity just as He prepares a place for the redeemed.

    God’s Love is consistent in giving what we all deserve.
     
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    The seed of the woman is the godly line leading to the promised seed who is Christ Jesus and us in Him.Gen3:15.
    The seed are humans as Eve was looking for the promised seedGen4:25
    God has appointed me another seed
     
  8. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    I would agree, however in your OP there seems to be the seed aligned with humans selected for redemption coming from Eve and those not so selected from the seed of the serpent.

    What I was about in my post was to show it wasn’t the human seed in comparison to non human seed, but that seed of Eve spoken in Gen. 3 is the “Word.”

    The word of the serpent is enmity to the “Word” of God.

    The seed is the word.
     
  9. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Why did God allow Cain to kill Abel?

    And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. Gen 4:25

    In what manner was Cain the seed of the serpent, especially relative to what Eve said concerning Cain when he was born?
     
  10. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    One could also ask, what corruption did the flood solve? How soon after exiting the ark did it begin again?
     
  11. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Gen 3:15 BTW at time of this statement Eve had no children yet five verses later Adam calls her the mother of all living.

    For, "it," I prefer, "He," to fulfill the prophecy would the, "her seed," have to be born of a virgin?

    Again Gen 4:1 the first time a human referred to God as LORD.
     
  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Mt23
    33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

    34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

    35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

    Heb11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
     
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  13. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    God judges people and nations when they put the godly line, the elect in danger.
     
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  14. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Ibid, Jonathan Edwards;
    By means of this flood, all the enemies of God’s church, against whom that little handful had no strength, were swept off at once. God took their part, appeared for them against their enemies, and drowned those of whom they had been afraid, in the flood of water, as he drowned the enemies of Israel that pursued them in the Red sea.

    Indeed God could have taken other methods to deliver his church: he could have converted all the world instead of drowning it; and so he could have taken another method than drowning the Egyptians in the Red sea. But that is no argument, that the method he did take, was not a method to show his redeeming mercy to them.

    By the deluge the enemies of God’s people were dispossessed of the earth, and the whole earth was given to Noah and his family to possess it in quiet; as God made room for the Israelites in Canaan, by casting out their enemies from before them. And God thus taking the possession of the enemies of the church, and giving it all to his church, was agreeable to that promise of the covenant of grace:

    Ps. xxxvii. 9-11. “For evil-doers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the Lord, they shall inherit the earth. For yet a little while and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. But the meek shall inherit the earth, and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.”
     
  15. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    from period1;
    II. Another thing belonging to the same work, was God’s wonderfully preserving that family of which the Redeemer was to proceed, when all the rest of the world was drowned. God’s drowning the world, and saving Noah and his family, were both reducible to this great work.

    Those who defend a universal but non saving love of God, How did the drowning of these persons fit into your theology?
     
  16. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    How did jn 12:32 help the world of the ungodly, when it had not happened yet?
    Or John1:9...how did the light spoken of help these folks?
     
  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    in section 1;6-

    VI. The dispersing of the nations, and dividing the earth among its inhabitants, immediately after God had caused the building of Babel to cease. This was done so as most to suit the great design of redemption. And particularly, God therein had an eye to the future propagation of the gospel among the nations.

    They were so placed, their habitation so limited, round about the land of Canaan, as most suited that design. Deut. xxxii. 8. “When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.” Acts xvii. 26, 27. “And hath made of one blood all nations of men, for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; that they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him.” The land of Canaan was the most conveniently situated of any place in the world, for the purpose of spreading revealed light among the nations in general. The Roman empire, the chief part of the civilized world, in the apostolic age, was in the countries round about Jerusalem. The devil seeing the advantage of this situation of the nations for promoting the great work of redemption, and the disadvantage of it with respect to the interests of his kingdom, afterward led away many nations into the remotest parts of the world, to get them out of the way of the gospel. Thus he led some into America; and others into northern cold regions, that are almost inaccessible.

    This idea that God is giving everyone an equal opportunity at the gospel is flat out unbiblical.
     
  18. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    19 Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: Depart from me therefore, ye bloodthirsty men.
    20 For they speak against thee wickedly, And thine enemies take thy name in vain.
    21 Do not I hate them, O Jehovah, that hate thee? And am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
    22 I hate them with perfect hatred: They are become mine enemies.
    23 Search me, O God, and know my heart: Try me, and know my thoughts;
    24 And see if there be any wicked way in me, And lead me in the way everlasting. Psalm 140 For the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David. Ps 139

    We're told to love OUR enemies, not His enemies.
     
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  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Thanks, I agree, that God loved the world of fallen mankind in this way, He gave His One of a Kind Son so that everyone believing into Him will not perish but have everlasting life.

    Recently we had a thread concerning "Christian Myths" and this thread is in support of one of them.
    God is love. God desires all men to be saved. Christ died as a ransom for all. Christ became the propitiation for the whole world, all of fallen mankind.
     
  20. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    Many point out that Paul in Ephesians 5 rejects Serpent seed doctrine (even in the watered down form of the OP) by proclaiming that those who now believe were once darkness. I tend to agree with that assessment.
     
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