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Featured Does God really ever change His own mind?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Yeshua1, Jan 28, 2020.

  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Or are the references to it in the Bible just applying human like responses to God in order to have us understand Him more fully?
     
  2. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    This goes to how God thinks and reasons. So beyond us puny mortals. For his ways and thoughts are above ours greatly.

    Two points, God does not lack omniscience. He knows what the future holds.

    That said, like Paul we pray that God saves people who reject the Gospel and in Israel's case were hardened for wrath. If God answers such a prayer and chooses to know those people, did He change His mind? Do our prayers of intercession change God's mind if answered? It might seem it, but on the otherhand we must remember God is still omniscient and knew how things would turn out all along.
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Are you saying then that God has chosen to not know certain things, or that he is open to being influenced by our prayers to change His directions?
     
  4. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    Influenced by prayer to change the status quo, which may seem like His will. He knows all.
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Are you seeing that he factors into his decision making process what we do?
     
  6. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    Yes, God responds to our prayers to even change a course of action as happened in Exodus 32:9-14, Of course, God knew what would happen before it came to pass, but He allowed Moses' intervention to be heard and acted on.

    The Lord said to Moses, “I have seen this people, and behold, they are [e]an obstinate people. 10 Now then let Me alone, that My anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them; and I will make of you a great nation.”

    Moses’ Entreaty
    11 Then Moses entreated the Lord his God, and said, “O Lord, why does Your anger burn against Your people whom You have brought out from the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand? 12 Why should the Egyptians speak, saying, ‘With evil intent He brought them out to kill them in the mountains and to destroy them from the face of the earth’? Turn from Your burning anger and change Your mind about doing harm to Your people. 13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, Your servants to whom You swore by Yourself, and said to them, ‘I will multiply your [f]descendants as the stars of the heavens, and all this land of which I have spoken I will give to your [g]descendants, and they shall inherit it forever.’” 14 So the Lord changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people.
     
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  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Are you saying God leaves some things open ended for the future, waiting upon us in order to decide what to then do?
     
  8. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    Hmm, you got me. It does not make sense, I must research more.
     
  9. MartyF

    MartyF Well-Known Member

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    The standard "babbling of nursemaids" response of John Calvin.
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Not familiar with that theology, was he a Charismatic then?
     
  11. MartyF

    MartyF Well-Known Member

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  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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  13. MartyF

    MartyF Well-Known Member

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    Here are two to three questions:

    1. Do you believe that God lies?

    2. Do you believe that God's knowledge of the future is exhaustive?

    3. If 2 is true, then what is your biblical reference for exhaustive knowledge as oppose to simply knowledge of the future.
     
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  14. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    Thank you, I will definitely look into this when I have Free time. I'm too busy to properly do study on your points. For now.
     
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Romans 11:33-36
    Oh, the depth of the riches both l of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! For who HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR? Or who HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN? For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.
     
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  16. MartyF

    MartyF Well-Known Member

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    1 Corinthians 2:16 NLT
    [16] For, "Who can know the LORD's thoughts? Who knows enough to teach him?" But we understand these things, for we have the mind of Christ.
     
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  17. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member
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    Immutability is stated in systematic theology textbooks as one of the key attributes of God. If correct this answers the original question. If incorrect, is there a theological textbook that says or suggests this, apart from works by the generally rejected and possibly heretical Open Theism crowd?
     
  18. MartyF

    MartyF Well-Known Member

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    Numbers 12:6-9 NLT
    [6] And the LORD said to them, "Now listen to what I say:

    "If there were prophets among you,
    I, the LORD, would reveal myself in visions.
    I would speak to them in dreams.
    [7] But not with my servant Moses.
    Of all my house, he is the one I trust.
    [8] I speak to him face to face,
    clearly, and not in riddles!
    He sees the LORD as he is.
    So why were you not afraid
    to criticize my servant Moses?"

    [9] The LORD was very angry with them, and he departed.
     
  19. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    Yes, he changes his mind.
    Certainly, he remains Omniscient, but he can purpose to do one thing and then intend otherwise in response to intercessory prayer, conditional responses repentance etc. Just as with Ninevah, with his response to Moses' intercessory prayer in Exodus 32 as Steven rightly pointed out, God changed his mind. Whether or not we can construct a Philosophical model to reconcile for ourselves how God's omniscience can be sustained while understanding a genuine change of mind is not the critical issue. What matters is what the text states. The texts clearly teach that God changed his mind. The Scriptures are also abundantly clear that God is Omniscient. It is our job to happily accept that without much thought or to attempt to explain how that can be coherently explained.
    I do not like to simply deny God's changing of his mind as mere "anthropomorphisms", and say well, we know that despite the plain verbiage of the text, what REALLY happened was_______________
     
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  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    1 Corinthians 2:14-16
    But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.

    ;)
     
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