By the way thank you for answering my previous question. Jim I have a couple more questions. Based on your belief that life starts around the 6th or 7th month, is that which is growing in the mothers womb a child or just a growing lifeless mass that becomes a child (human being) when life is given according to your understanding of the time frame?
Second question is, if it is not alive prior to the time frame you hold then does it go to heaven or is the mass treated like it never existed if it is destroyed (aborted) prior to the time frame which you believe life starts?
Does Life Begin at Conception?
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by righteousdude2, Nov 8, 2011.
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Yes....
32 vote(s)84.2% -
No...
5 vote(s)13.2% -
To believe this is not radical or extreme...
8 vote(s)21.1% -
Here's what I believe.... (see comment)
2 vote(s)5.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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Yes, Life begins at conception.
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Some say that abortion is okay up until 30 days before birth.
My answer, "Why not make that up till 30 days AFTER birth?" -
Don's post is the most coherent and since he deals with what I wrote and not what some of you seem to think I wrote (scratches head at Mandym's response), I'll use him to clarify what I think you both are arguing:
But none of this defines when a fertilized egg becomes a person. You can't get that interpretation from either set of scripture. All these scriptures say is that God specially appointed these two men to the places they filled in history.
You seem to saying that by defining person hood at some time other than at conception that we might thwart God's will somehow. That some great person of history might not be born because I used birth control (sorry that's where this argument leads) or some poor girl had an abortion who didn't know any better to begin with. I don't believe we humans HAVE that power.
If not Jeremiah, God would have used someone else. But in God's foreknowledge He could see that not only would there be a babe born named Jeremiah, but that babe could grow up to be a mighty prophet and so He arranged for it to happen as He knew it needed to.
Traumatically injured persons are still person because they still have breath and blood independent (in most cases) of another human being. And if they don't, the decision to provide such artificially should be left up to the individual and their family. For me, you best not put me on a respirator if its going to leave me bound unconscious or barely conscious to a hospital bed with no hope of improvement. I'd rather step into heaven than be tied to a body where I can't even breathe or think for myself. If I'm fully conscious, it might be a consideration on a temporary basis, but, liberal that I am, I see nothing in scripture that requires me to use any and all artificial means to keep this shell alive for as long as possible.
Our bodies are bound to fail. Why do we as Christians with the Great Hope that we have, fear dying? Doesn't make sense to me. -
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Let me expand on the fluid-based deep-sea diving systems. If someone puts on one of those, and starts "breathing" via the fluid, does that invalidate their capability of breathing? Does it invalidate their personhood for the time that they're wearing the suit? If not, then what's the difference between that and the fetus "breathing" via amniotic fluid? -
I've thought of a better one though, granted its out of context:
Eze 37:1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,
Eze 37:2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.
Eze 37:3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.
Eze 37:4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
Eze 37:5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
Eze 37:6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Eze 37:7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
Eze 37:8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.
Eze 37:9 Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.
Eze 37:10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
Now there they stood(lay?), a whole army of flesh and bone and apparently blood as well. Their lungs were fully formed, yet there was no breath in them. They weren't people yet, though they had potentially functioning bodies.
We call birth a miracle. And so we should. Because my personal belief is that God breathes life into the infant, whether at the moment of birth or when it actually begins to breath through the amniotic fluid. But before that, its just the potential for life, just as those bodies that lay fully formed in that valley weren't alive until God breathed life into them. -
1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not by the water only, but by the water and the blood.
Could these two verses imply the importance and the independence of a person from the placenta? -
Is an abortion an act of man?
Is a miscarriage a act of God?
We know miscarriages (acts of God) happen from conception up to birth.
Is it possible for there to be a spiritual miscarriage of one conceived by the Spirit of adoption?
Just when is it said that, "Neither can they die any more."?
When is absolute of one being a child of God unable to die anymore? Does Luke 20:35,36 answer that question? -
Freeatlast: quote: Based on your belief that life starts around the 6th or 7th month, is that which is growing in the mothers womb a child or just a growing lifeless mass that becomes a child (human being) when life is given according to your understanding of the time frame?
Second question is, if it is not alive prior to the time frame you hold then does it go to heaven or is the mass treated like it never existed if it is destroyed (aborted) prior to the time frame which you believe life starts?
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The 6th or 7th month has been medically determined to be the time the fetus (or whatever you want to call it) can survive independent of the mother.
I do not know the destiny of infants, children. I know that all the elect will be saved. I don't think anyone can definitely answer this question. When I first started as a youth pastor, my first event was the death of an infant to believing parents. I was Anglican, the infant had been sprinkled, so I said original sin was resolved and the child of believing parents would go to heaven...Remember, this was Anglican thought. What I said troubled me for years as I delved into covenant theology. To-day, I don't have an answer, to be honest.
Cheers,
Jim
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I'm reading your viewpoint above as, God only sees "worth" in certain individuals; I disagree.
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"Meet Amillia Taylor - or what she looked like in October, when she was born as the world's youngest surviving premature baby. Amillia was born at a Miami hospital after less than 22 weeks of development. Since then she's been incubating and is expected to go home soon.
Is there nothing more amazing than those teeny tiny translucent feet. Hold your own hand out in front of you, and imagine those feet poking through your fingers. She was 10 OUNCES when born (280 grams), and 9.5 inches (24 cm). That's just longer than the length of your hand."
Call "it" Amilla...
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Despite your insistance to the contrary, you're really arguing the proabortion case. -
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