Perhaps the wording was incorrect in my subject, but I was skimming a Henry Morris book on the book of Job and was looking up many of the verses mentioned from the KJV and I noticed that in many cases the ESV & NIV translate differently than the KJV/NKJV. I know that this is due to different manuscript evidences and I am aware of this argument. However what concerned me was perhaps the ESV & NIV's rendering of various passages. Job 28:9-10 is one example that takes the authority of God and moves it to man.
NIV
People assault the flinty rock with their hands
and lay bare the roots of the mountains.
10 They tunnel through the rock;
their eyes see all its treasures.
ESV
“Man puts his hand to the flinty rock
and overturns mountains by the roots.
10 He cuts out channels in the rocks,
and his eye sees every precious thing.
NKJV
He puts his hand on the flint;
He overturns the mountains at the roots.
10 He cuts out channels in the rocks,
And his eye sees every precious thing.
There are many other passages that I looked up from the book which render very different in the ESV/NIV. If the author had those translations available before he died or wrote this book I doubt he could have made the arguments he did. What do you say? I am aware that Ken Ham of Answers in Genesis thinks that the ESV & NIV are not the best translations and he prefers the KJV.
John
Does the ESV & NIV corrupt Biblical Creationism?
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by evangelist6589, Jul 4, 2012.
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evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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I don't have a major problem with the KJV, NKJV, NASB, or ESV in this regard. The NIV, as a dynamic equivalent translation, takes an extra interpretive step that can prove problematic. I have been asked by my church members what bible I would recommend for serious bible study. While I am a critical text guy, I feel comfortable recommending the KJV and NKJV along with the NASB and ESV. I would avoid the NIV for serious study.
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Baptist Believer Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Translation of the Book of Job is very difficult because a number of the words are only found once in the scriptures (in Job). Biblical Hebrew was originally written without vowels, only consonants, and is reliant upon context in order to determine what the root word. Once you determine the root word, you have to interpret the meaning according to the context. Most of the time it works out well because you have a familiar context and the words are routinely used in a similar way, but the Book of Job is a very early book and has many unfamiliar words.
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The ESV translation is exactly right.
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God's Word Shall Stand
Beware of rash statements, friend. I went online curious as to whether that claim is true. I found KJV Bibles on his sight as well as ESV; but seriously what is the point here? Do we need to contend over such matters? Members and staff of AnswersinGenesis have stepped up and taken some stands that sadly, most of us would shy from.
The versions have been an issue of the past century, I agree. Personally, I prefer the KJV. It was translated from the original texts, and appears from what I have reasearched to be the most accurate. I have had friends and family, including my twin sister, use other versions. It is a personal conviction that I believe is for someone to decide. God promises in His Book that His words shall not return unto Him void. No matter what man may do in seeking to contort, dilute, or destroy what our God has said, I do believe it will remain ever powerful. He gives of the free choice, yes, but He is still the Master of the Universe, and there is nothing that finite man can do to weaken the power of God and His words. -
http://www.answersingenesis.org/PublicStore/catalog/Bibles-Study-Tools,227.aspx
Modern versions such as the ESV, utilize MUCH older texts in their translations. Not only this, the ESV better renders the Greek inflection, and does not have the "Roman Catholic" bent that the KJV has (since the KJV was translated by Anglicans...)
Well I agree with {most} of this.... -
You do have a point here. I didn't clarify. I meant the original Greek texts. I am aware that the actual originals were not used.
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Answers in Genesis VBS curriculum is KJV/NKJV.
Ken Ham's son Nathan Ham, pastor of Harvest Baptist Church, Cincinnati, Ohio:
http://nathanham.blogspot.com/search/label/translation issues
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If I may quote from The New Defender's Study Bible, pg 1 Introduction to the Old Testament..."Furthermore, no English translation of the Bible is perfect (though it is my conviction that the so-called King James Version comes closest to that ideal) and neither is any specific Hebrew manuscript of the text. ...."
I think that if Dr. Morris had issues with the popular NIV rendering of critical verses such as those under consideration in this thread he would have mentioned them in this SB. -
Uhhh guys, the passages here were written in Hebrew not Greek.
The translators of older versions were at a distinct disadvantage, not having modern archeological data and the various texts found near the Dead Sea.
My opinion, the ESV is particularly friendly to an old earth interpretation but it has nothing to do with "manuscripts", rather the translators worked within the semantic range of the Hebrew words to make a more accurate translation.
EXAMPLE:
before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; Genesis 2:5 (NKJV)
When no bush of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up—for the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the land, and there was no man to work the ground, Genesis 2:5 (ESV)
This distinctive translative change clears up many problems inherent in the old translations, particularly concerning whether are two creation stories or one story with a clarification.
On this subject I'd recommend C. John Collins book, "Genesis 1-4, A Linguistic, Literary, and Theological Commentary" (2006).
Rob -
:) Good book by Mr. Collins, about half way complete reading it now. -
HeirofSalvation Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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preachinjesus Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Job is a complicated book in the original Hebrew.
Since it is an epic poem, sort of like Homer's Odyssey, it uses construction and forms often not seen in other OT books. In fact over 140 hapax legomena (a word only appearing once in the entire Bible...in the original language) occur in Job. Of those hapax there are something like 60 that have no similar root word in the rest of the Hebrew OT.
Frankly the newer translations are better because, as others have mentioned, they are informed by archeology and linguistic studies. When the KJV was revised, in its last revision (not the NKJV,) Ugaritic wasn't even known. The NKJV relies on the same manuscripts as the KJV, which is part of the problem, though with slightly better scholarship, but even that was translated in 1979.
This passage has some unusual renderings and uncommon. The more modern translations (ESV, NIV, NET, etc) get the translation better than the KJV or NKJV. It doesn't water down "creation." Let's not forget the Bible is specific as to the "how" of creation but is tremendously more concerned with the "who" and "why." -
evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter