Does the RCC have An Inferior View On the Bible?

Hope you are sitting down, but we agree.

 

I am glad because you three are enough to wear anyone out. LOL

 

Ordinarily, I would love it, but I am tired of strife, and I just don't believe anything can be discussed here without that. I don't mind stating passionate beliefs and areas of disagreement, but I have no interest in bashing Catholics or anyone else.

 

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

I keep remembering a RCC nun whom I knew about 20 years ago. I was taking a social work college course and had to do an internship, which I did with the nun and her organization. She was one of the finest examples of "lived faith" that I have ever seen.

I hope wherever Sister Emmanuel is now that she is blessed.

 

Straw ,an. Never saic that. But that's the only response you could gove to try to maintain your position. I said, the council of jerusalem had a leader, James. They determined the theology to be taught to gentiles. James made the decisions, after the others made their arguments. And that is infinitely closer to Rome's church, than ours.

As for autonomy, that's only partially true. Timothy and titus were over the church in particular areas. Not just one church. Clement, who most likely is the Clement that was mentioned by Paul, supports that thought.

Your comment lit up your interests, but didn't address what I said.

 

I commend you both. You will stop at no links to paint yourselves as right. You just commended and praised her for implying someone said something that wasn't said. You praised her? Him for either being misleading, or for not reading what they responded to. At least, you two, of nothing else, are consistent. I can learn to work with that.

 

Never mind. Did not know that there had been a practice of people going back and forth between Baptist and Catholic boards to disrupt them as some type of game. Had I known that, I would have never entered the discussion, as I am not bowing out.

 

I don't want you to bow out. If you did, you wouldn't face the things you need to face. :)

Listen, I have no personal beef with you. But I'm all up in your face here for a reason that is not personal but biblical. I could be wrong, YOU could be wrong. That's the beauty of Matthew 18's command to go to the one that sinned against you, in this case the church. If I'm wrong, you get to educate me. And if you can stop thinking you know it all long enough to consider the other arguments, and even, on a good day, respond to them, you might learn something too.

Now, the reason I approach any of you, knowing it's pointless as I do, is someone has to, and most just will avoid the "fight".

Those people that go to other boards and start fights, are only one step away from the vitriol some of you on here are showing. ONE SMALL STEP at that. So, when you look at that person as doing wrong running to the other boards, know that MOST of your faith, look at the comments in here as inappropriate and hate laden as hell. Literally hell.

Your unwillingness to even face arguments against your view, show a...(no other word, bear with me...) cockiness that puts you beyond reproach in your mind.

In other words, it's like trying to tell the fly to stop bloodying it's nose on the window.

So, I'd hope we could talk WITH each other, not me try to talk with you, and you lecture me. And I'd hope you'd actually take the time to investigate the arguments against you before you dismiss them as below you.

:tonofbricks:

But, I took the over on this bet. And it'll feed me Ruth's Chris' Steakhouse tonight...

 

You must have made some bet to pay that bill. I am always open to changing my belief on a certain doctrine, like I have on Baptism going from Presby to Baptist. I was actually surprised to learn that people, some here, spend time going to other faith boards to stir the pot. Bowing out is not a matter of being afraid to face a difference of opinion, it is more based on I want to part of a behind the scenes game of trashing different faiths.

 

Dude, you realize you've been doing that all over the board here, right? Is it ok to bash them in private, but wrong to do it to their face? I don't get it.

And most of the bashing you guys have tossed about here, isn't even an accurate reflection of their beliefs in the first place. And if someone tries to explain that, you blow up in their faces.

Why do you want to hold a "debate forum" but eliminate those you bad mouth from presenting themselves and the truth of their beliefs?

Granted many RCC members take the fights to boards like this. DO YOU KNOW WHY? The numbers are close to 25 to 1, fundamental baptist far right wing sycophant on a soap box invading their lives to scream ravenously in their face they are the anti christ and going to send everyone to hell.

IF I had to face that, I'd start to seek out the roots of it and beat the heck out of it and put that fire out at the source. So you can't really blame them for wanting to come here and fight their fight. Take the fight to them. It's a PREEMPTIVE strike. If we knew Iran had a nuke on a missile that was going to fire at us or an ally, we'd turn their base into a glass parking lot. Preemption. That's all they are doing.

So you don't have to agree with their theology, but YOU DANG SURE outta learn their actual beliefs and how they got there before you start making accusations. And, sir, in all due respect, I admit your passion, but your information is parroted from a long line of lemmings that turned right and not left generations ago.

I'm the guy that is more passionate than you and used to do just what you do on here. I did the research myself, to make the case from their perspective, and they are MUCH more biblically based than you and I are. HOWEVER, even though they are rooted stronger in biblical verses than we are, I don't think they have all the interpretations right, so I can't accept their positions on a lot of things.

But basically the fundy right builds a big catholic strawman, beats them like it's socially acceptable on straw man arguments, and then pats each other on the back for being a good ole boy, before booting anyone that can argue against what they do from the board.

I'm quite sure my days are numbered here. But I won't back down from what Scripture says. I'll fight til I'm shown I'm wrong, which won't happen on here, you guys seem to predominantly rely on pre study hunches in your theology, rather than scripture. And that's much worse than Tradition is.

For the record, the PROTESTANT/BAPTISTS churches rely on tradition too. Trinity is tradition for example. I can make a stronger case for a man never sinning again scripturally than you can for the trinity, yet trinity is accepted and the other bashed.

The argument comes from CATHOLIC TRADITION. How's that sit in your craw? It's one example of many.

 

The word "bash" seems to be one of your favorite accusations, inaccurate, but favorite. You don't get it because you fail to see the concept of truth vs. error. Read the Book of Acts and pay close attention to the way Paul behaved himself on missionary journeys--where he went, what he preached, what the reaction was, and why.

There is that word "bashing" again. Ever heard of a Thesaurus?
And the word "bashing" isn't even an accurate reflection of our beliefs or their beliefs in the first place (from your point of view) in the first place. :D

Why do you claim to be a Baptist in your profile but defend Catholic views. A little hypocritical aren't you?

Let's get this straight. This is a Baptist board. To post here is a privilege not a right. Those that are Catholics here have either converted to Catholicism while here, or have crept in unawares. Therefore they are here by deceit and dishonesty, something like yourself if you are defending the Catholic faith. To post here is a privilege not a right. Again, it is a Baptist Board. It is not a place to advertise the religious beliefs of other denominations.
In fact all applications from Catholics are currently rejected, as all applications from J.W.'s, Mormons, etc.

Yes I can. They aren't allowed here in the first place.
Secondly, I was a Catholic for twenty years. I know what the RCC teaches, and have been studying and debating the RCC's since that time. I don't appreciate others telling me that I don't know what I believe or did believe. It is the height of arrogance and ignorance.

Most of us do take the fight to them, that is the ones on this board who are still advocates of the RCC. We don't want it to spread any farther then they are promoting it. They have done enough damage as it is.

I for one, do know their beliefs. I believe that, by reading your posts, you are the one that is not always accurate in your facts.

You can, like the RCC's do, look at history revised, through rose-colored glasses and be blinded to the truth. As I said to you once before: "Ignorance is bliss," and if you choose to live there, so be it. But don't accuse the rest of us of being in that vacuum.

It is nice to be passionate, but many are passionately wrong. The Catholic Church is passionate about sending souls to hell with their works ordained theology.

Hogwash! Their beliefs are diametrically opposed to the gospel of the Bible. You cannot be a Catholic, believe what the RCC teaches, and expect to go to heaven at the same time. You cannot believe what the RCC teaches and be a Christian at the same time. The RCC never was a Christian church, is not and never will be a Christian Church. The Reformers did not have that name "Reformers" for no good reason. Their attempts at the reformation of the corrupt RCC failed, and thus they became "Protestors."

When I left the RCC, after 20 years, I was Biblically ignorant, as are almost all Catholics that I meet today. When I left I could (and still can) quote most of the mass in Latin. That is not Bible. The Bible being read a few times during the Mass is not the Bible being taught. The Catholics are ignorant of the Bible.

The only type of Catholic that would dare to enter this board in the first place would be a Catholic apologist, one who would make sure that he knows what he is talking about. The average Catholic would never do that. They don't know a pittance about their own faith, much less anything about the Bible. I know; I talk to them.

It seems you have no idea of what the Scripture says, nor of what the RCC teaches. You post in ignorance.

Since I post according to sola scriptura it is not tradition. The Bible is my final authority in all matters of faith and doctrine. Your opinions are worthless when matched up against the Scriptures.

The trinity is a concept well established and taught from the Bible. It is not a tradition. To declare that it is a tradition only shows ignorance.

No, that is not an example of Catholic Tradition. It just shows you don't know what you are talking about.

 

I have studied Catholic and Mormon theology by reading books from the library. Obviously my knowledge is only basic. I was a Presbyterian a little longer than DHK was a Catholic, so I do understand why I changed by views on Baptism. At the same time, I hold strongly to the belief that Jesus Christ is my Advocate to God, and that I confess my sins to Him. I also believe salvation is through faith only, and works come as a result of salvation.

Catalyst, when I asked all three of you a question, not meant to be a debate point, you turn it into a debate. The last one I asked you, WM, and Walter, was to explain how the difference of how the books were cannonized in our individual Bibles. All three of you did not answer the question, but got another put down for my lack of historical knowledge.

Having said all of that, I want no part of going to a Catholic board to defend the Baptist faith, as that is their domain, and this board is ours. DHK is correct. Posting here is a priviledge, not a right, kind of like driving a car.

You three are still here after a lengthy period of time. I wonder how long I would last on a Catholic board making light of Catholic beliefs?

 

Example, a bigot starts any bigotted statement with, I have many friends who are..... Of course you think it's inaccurate, if you thought I was accurate you'd change. No one questions your heart on the issue. By any definition of the word you are bashing and you aren't biblically supported in what you are doing NO MATTER WHAT you want to call it. I'll gladly take that debate with any one person any time.

Also, take an anonymous poll of all the users on here and see how many agree with me and not you. You should win the majority because the data pool is skewed to be from the same theological belief system. (which makes debate rather difficult if you all agree... but....) What would the Church look like if Peter had said, Paul doesn't belong with us, HE wants to speak to Gentiles... and they kicked him out. They would have lost balance, too much weight one way, and the heavy side thinks they are right, no matter the proof. Afterall there are a thousand others sitting on the same side of the balance as you, so you MUST be right, you win the numbers.... only because you wouldn't let anyone else on to play.

So, I'm inaccurate, you have to say that, and I think you believe that, but it's a fantasy that you are free to maintain if you wish. That being said, I still wouldn't want your job of managing one of these places, so my hats are off to your endeavors for your dedication if nothing else.

Yeah, that's what the KKK said when they created their club. That's what the mormons said when they created their group, the seventh day adventists, the J.W.s, the Nazis, the Italian Fascists, the Chines and Russian communists, the calvinists, the latter groups having to kill people, to show how they were right. Which group do you more closely affilate with?

ANYONE can stand on a soapbox and say, YOU ARE WRONG YOU DON'T GET IT I AM RIGHT. And it amounts to petulant hot air expulsion. I've given scripture every step of the way in my comments. Most of you, YOU included avoid addressing it. It's really flippin easy to be right if you redact anything in the bible that might show you to be wrong.

If you behaved like Paul we would have no problems. You behave like the circumcision group he spoke out against though. You are delirious if you find your behavior here to be Paulinian. Make a thread for the two of us to have that chat. You'll be shamed by the time its over. Not because that's my goal, but because of how far from the truth that sentence will be revealed to be. You try to justify the bigotry on here, by claiming it's biblical, but can't, and won't refute any opposition, you just ignore it and say "YOU ARE WRONG". That's weak. You have no support for the behavior on here biblically.

Thesaurus??? I"m having to keep it simple, I'd use crayola font if there was one. Why would I use different words when bashing isn't even being understood, why complicate it? You want a different word? I'll consult the dictionary, hang on....

big·ot·ry   /ˈbɪgətri/ Show Spelled[big-uh-tree] Show IPA
noun, plural big·ot·ries.
1. stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

That's addressing the arguments, not the people making them. I think I'll stick to BASH, it's much more socially acceptable.

 

Well show you know, correct some of the people's ridiculous claims. Like you are saved by works. I gave the biblical break down of that one, and not a person here was man, or woman enough to answer it. Just turn your head and whistled as you walked off.

And most of my arguments have been, I don't agree with them, but they are more biblical than protestants are, followed with explanations and scripture, and your answers have been a unanimous, profound, "NU UH!" Very "debate" like of you.

So you ban them, and take the fight to them, and claim to love them? if you don't love them, you aren't in God and he's not in you. I'm not accusing, I'm quoting, John was the chaps name. The word AGAPAO is not present anywhere in what you are doing here. Your results make factions and dissensions, that's fleshly not spiritual fruit, and you posture to be the holy one. Give me a break.

But you can promote HATE and BIGOTRY not to mention allow lies and deliberate misrepresentations of their faith, and eliminate anyone that can refute you. That's not debate. It's not even teaching. It's bigotry. It's holy huddle. It's exactly EXACTLY how the KKK was formed, read their history. That is the closest model to your behavior here, is KKK. That's a PRECIOUS fruit you bear. DO THE POLL!

So you guys have said, and I refuted, and you had no answers. So until you can back up your braggodocious claims, I'm pretty content where I'm at. And wrong about their claims or not, I'm not wrong on what scripture says about their beliefs, and you guys have yet to address it.

WHAT KIND OF BAPTIST ARE YOU? Are you baptist ONLY because you believe in the full dunk, and not the love neighbor, love enemy, love brother, don't cause strife, dissension, factions, etc.. LOOK you can poo poo me away anytime you wish. I respect your rights. But you can make me disappear, you will still be causing strife dissension, factions, UNLOVE, hate and bigotry. And you'll be claiming you are holier than me because I defend some RCC doctrine, which is a lie, I defend the Bible and it happens to support their doctrine, MOST of the time.

Question my faith like you just did, what an AD HOMINEM way to answer me, when you can't refute the scriptures presented in these threads that you abhorently violate.

The above, is giving you the same tone and respect you have shown me. If you think I'm out of line, boot yourself first, I'm following your lead.

You can investigate that, and we can debate it with citations and see who is revising, but you wouldn't want to do that, you don't want to be shown you are wrong, that's why no RCC's are allowed on here to defend themselves. :1_grouphug:ONLY "holy like me/judged by me and approved by me" allowed. Right?

As I responded you and others are some HAPPY folks on here.

Step out of the vacuum then. When you can answer the direct rebuttals to any of the things you have said, vs ignoring them, your comment will warrant consideration. At this point you are an embarassed, shamed, whiney thug. You want to demean my character? Lie about my faith because I don't think like you? Well own your sins then. Bigot, thuggy, fascist. Look up every word. NOT A ONE is a word that you haven't exhibited the behavior to on here. So you can boot the messenger, it won't change your heart. You won't have some one VOICING opposition to you, but that just means you'll be a bigot in peace. Not any sorta holier than thou Xian.

Oh, you are so right, for example, many of your pasionate, selected chosen members, :1_grouphug: have made DIRECT CONTRADICTIONS TO THE WORD OF GOD, and belittled me telling me I'm wrong because I won't let them. You are truly all of one kind. Scripture is good for you to have a prop to rewrite and claim to be superior from. But, none of you have been man enough, nor Xian enough to face it word for word and try to live by it. You've one and all tried to rewrite it to suit your theology.

Well, I'm your nemesis, I let scripture define my theology, not my theology define my scripture. I had to change from a belief similar to yours, to where I am now just to be IN LINE with scripture. You are still trying to force it into your personal box. Good luck with that. You can pour the milk out into a meat shaped cookie mold, but it's still milk.

You are passionate about filling in for GOD on the judgment seat. How can I argue with With GOD's personal substitute judge. Arrogant bigot.

To date, I've shown biblically they are not. YOu've sit on a stump and called me names, insulted me, maligned my character, my faith, and ignored my direct rebuttals to repeat the above. ALL OF THAT was against your rules. I noticed the one rule you didn't approve, is if it's gays or catholics none of the respect others rules apply.

If you have the love right, you are in heaven. Plain and simple. If you have the love right, HE is in you and you are in HIM. If you got the love wrong, you can be the leader of the SBC convention for all I care, the word baptist won't do anything but get you laughed at in hell. That is the SOLE requirement that is the result and canon of everyother statement in the Bible regarding salvation. You have ZERO agapao on here. You don't even understand the word. It's as absent here, as the people thinking SARX ONLY refers to the human body are ignorant of it's meaning.

I have never been taught by the RCC. You have. Perhaps that explains your intrinsic, uncontrollable angst and hate towards them. I'm clear of any reason to hate them. I made my arguments because of years of conversations with multiple faiths, and doing my own research. You are parroting comments other's teach, and ... wait... maybe not you parroting comments, but "you" in the general sense referring to the ... wait for it.... "BASHING" found on here.

Thus they created factions and dissensions. Flesh not fruit of the spirit. I'm so glad you embrace the fleshly foundation you are built from. :| Now, stop claiming to be the holy one. You aren't selling it to anyone.

Now, 20 years of catholic hating teachers later, you can repeat the same things they teach. You should be proud.

Some of the smartes people I talk with, biblically are RCC. Sorry, but you are living a pipe dream and stating a dramatic untruth. Perhaps you just hung out with some ignorant RCC'ers, that would explain why something as hateful as the Xianity you preach here would make sense to you, you were one of the ignorant, and now you are just a louder form of ignorant, still just as ignorant as before, because you can't support your behavior in scripture anywhere. I've shown you errant over a dozen times, you can't and don't answer them. So, you say whatever you have to do to claim to be Xian. Whatever makes you feel good. But no one is going to buy your claim with this behavior.

 

Liar. The above is simply not true. More than that, in the average protestant congregation you ask them what born again means, out of 100 people you'll get 110 differnet answers. Ask them why you are baptised, same thing. Ask them about the Spirit of God, same thing. So rather than teach anything, the baptist named churches just keep splitting and splitting and splitting like a wiggly worm, because none of them can agree on what the Bible says. :| INTRINSICALLY biblically the best bet possible of your claim, is that ONE baptist church, somewhere, has it right. We have more Baptist denominations and differences than any other church on the face of the earth.

Fruit, says you are full of yourself and not seeing the truth. :flower:

I'm sure I"M Gone after this. I'm sure you'll delete this. You won't really have a choice. But no one else will tell you. I'm too altruistic regarding the words of the Bible, and my faith, to let you posture as some holy man.

1Jo 4:16 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has [fn]for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.

1Jo 4:17 By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.

1Jo 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear [fn]involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

According to this post, and framed against your actions, you are a stranger to the head of this church.

 

Catalyst,

Since you want to debate here so much, reply to my new thread on how do Catholics obey Jesus’ command call no one ‘father’.

 

Why, you've never answered a response I gave you to anything else, what would be the point? BTW are you ma'am or sir? I really blubbed that one up back there somewhere. We may not get along, but I don't intend to do things like that....

Why did PAUL have himself called father by some of those he taught.

You want to debate, then first answer that contradiction between Paul and Jesus as you understand Jesus.

ThEN get them to put us in a room where only you and I can post. And let's have a civil one on one conversation.

Can you?

I suspect my days are limited here anyway. Probably a waste of time.

 

"The only type of Catholic that would dare to enter this board in the first place would be a Catholic apologist, one who would make sure that he knows what he is talking about."


What a lot of hooey, DHK. You make accusations and statements grounded upon no facts but upon your own hatred for the Catholic Church. None of the Catholics (three I think) on this board are apologists. You accused the Catholic Church of sending 'their most able apologists to this board'. More hooey!! The only person that ever could have been considered an apologist was Carson Weber and he was still an undergrad at Stuebenville when he participated here. I KNOW BECAUSE I HAVE COMMUNICATED WITH HIM ABOUT THIS BOARD!!! I not saying your a liar, I'm saying you are making false assumptions. If a Catholic has a handle on his faith he/she doesn't fit into assumption that Catholics are poor, ignoramuses that 'don't nuttin 'bout the bible', therefore, the one that do must be apologists. I've spent time going over the archives of this board checking out your allegations. They don't hold water!

When a person on this board, especially someone attending a Baptist church, begins to question the teachings of Protestantism and gives an honest look at the Catholic Church, they are automatically labeled a 'closet Catholic' or accused of coming to this board under false pretenses. I've been called a liar, that I always was a Catholic and could never have been a Baptist in the first place. Lets face it, the idea that someone could study the Catholic faith and conclude it is the New Testament Church Christ founded is absurd to you, so these kinds of conclusions follow.

 

Paul was explaining that he was among the Apostles, one among the few people who gave the gospel message. Paul was not reading from books or letters about the gospel, nor was he being taught first by Peter and the others, but the Holy Spirit taught Paul, and had those letters and books written that we now read in the Bible.
Paul, as a person who got the message before others, in this he was like a father for being before the others. However, Paul does not say to call him ‘father’, and there is nowhere in the Bible where anyone calls Paul ‘father’. I can give you scriptures that show the Apostles are called ‘brother’.
The Bible has been written, and the Catholic priests did not receive the message like the Apostles. Jesus says not to call anyone father, that we are brothers.
Now that I have answered your question, please tell me how Catholics obey Jesus in this command.

I already made a new thread about this. I would like to know how Catholics obey Jesus in call no man ‘father’.
I do not think that they would give us a special room to debate.

I would really like to debate more with you. In case you are banned, is there another group I could join in which you are a member?
I really do love people that are Catholics. My dad and mom were Catholics; they have died not knowing what I know now about the Truth.