This shows how incomplete and inaccurate your position is. No where in scriptures does it say the Catholic Church teaches a False Doctrine of Justification. Do you know what the Catholic Doctrine of justification is? Let me inform you that it has nothing to do with works. I will explain it to you if you are trully interested. But first you must supply your understanding of it so I can show where you err.
This demonstrates and supports my point and catholic doctrine what you have described here is not a faith but your belief. In other words you are saying you have given intellectual assent that Jesus is Lord and he is whom he claims to be. You believe this is enough for salvation. This as James says even the demons do. Faith is active. Faith changes lives. Scriptures stand against you. In Matthew 25 Jesus even says:It is clear then that in both groups people believed in Jesus had an intellectual assent Yet one group acted on their belief - that is faith as James would call it - and the other group did not - That is belief not faith, for faith is an action.
"Scriptures are against you in this as well. We can see in Matthew 25 those who believed and had no deeds to demonstrate their faith were cast out with the goats into eternal fire. Jesus own words. Jesus also makes this clear when he saysand againand againSo it is clear Jesus differenciates between those who do and do not do the fathers will. He doesn't say in this passage "he who does not believe in me alone does not love me" but "anyone who does not obey his teaching". Very clear. Activity is a result of faith. But without it; it is clear faith is not present just an intellectual assent. Therefore your premise is wrong as is described by the very words of our Lord.
Many of the things you mention here are not apart of "Rome's Gospel" but your imaginary idea of Rome.
Does The RCC Teach true Gospel/Jesus?
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by JesusFan, Nov 3, 2011.
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
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They are heretical doctrines. I don't believe the Apostles taught heresy. So that is the place to start. -
Matt Black Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
So does this mean that you're abandoning your theory - stated many times on this board - that the RCC only came into existence in the 4th century?
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You fully well know that Rome believes that grace is administered through sacraments, and administered to personally unbelieving unrepentant infants as the vast majority of recipients.
This absolute unbiblical heresy stinks in the nostrils of the Almighty God and and perverts the gospel into pure spiritual manure which I utterly detest and hate with unbridled passion.
James is teaching exactly what Paul is teaching in Romans 6 which is justification by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone but not apart from regenerative life from which good works originates. Unwittingly you admit this when you say,
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
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Matt Black Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
Dr. Walter,
I will attempt...Note I'm saying attempt because you are hard headed with what you think you know about Catholicism that to shed light on a doctrinal consept must be filtered through your already held misbelief about what is being said.
So I will attempt to shed light on the Catholic view of Justification and the fundamental difference between Catholics and Protestants. Note in Catholicism consepts are dependent on each other and are split apart as in protestants. Thus when a protestant speaks of Justification that is the only thing mentioned. However, a Catholic must recognize its working as a whole an therefore must mention items justification is reliant on such as Grace which then explains justification, sanctification, sacraments, and a whole slew of other things. None of these items works independent of each other.
First, the Protestant teaching on grace is that it is divine aid but not divine life. Holiness comes from imputation from Christ and because of this the Father makes a legal declaration of "holy". Reality is the person isn't really transformed into holiness just declared. This is the Protestant position as I've heard countless times in countless churches and schools I've attended.
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Baptists do not compartmentalize justification from the rest of salvation in the sense you are accusing them. Baptists view "salvation" as a general unbrella under which there are various aspects that work harmoniously together but cannot be confused with each other as they are distinctly related to each other in a cause and consequence relationships. No aspect of salvation is exclusively independent from other aspects but they work harmoniously integrated with each other in a cause and consequence relationship.
Although election, predestination, regeneration, justification, adoption, sanctification and glorification all work harmoniously together as "salvation" they are not the same things but have distinctly different logical and causual relationships to each other. Grace is not the "divine aide" but is the DIVINE ACT that implements each aspect in its proper role and relationship with every other aspect in salvation.
For example God's purpose of grace is causal to all of salvation (Rom. 8:28 "according to His purpose"). His foreknowledge is consequential of that purpose and the mental acknowledgement and divine expression of His purpose of grace and is causual to all salvation. Election is causual to Predestination in working out all that He has purposed for his elect (2 Thes. 2:13 - regeneration and conversion to the gospel). Regeneration is completed in gospel conversion which is causal to justification and adoption. Regeneration is causual to progressive sanctification which is completed in glorification.
Hence, there is no such thing as a justified child of God who is not also a regenerated child of God and that is what James is getting at and the visible evidence is works (Eph. 2:10). -
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We have to be careful not to make our own beliefs the bounds orthodoxy while labeling everyone who believes differently as heretics. -
Matt Black Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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WM -
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Baptismal regeneration is based upon poor hermeneutics, inadequate Bible knowledge and completely ignoring Biblical evidence to the contrary.
Gentleman, you are trying to clean a pig and put him in a suite and make him acceptable at the dinner table as a proper guest. -
Baptismal regeneration = heresy.
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Being baptized in a baptismal pool, being sprinkled, or having water poured over one's head does not in any way contribute to a person's salvation. To suggest otherwise, no matter how far back the belief can be traced, is to add an extra biblical requirement to salvation. It boarders Water baptism follows salvation rather than being a part of one's actual salvation. That alone is by faith. "Anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
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Acts 2:38 38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 22:16 16And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
1 Peter 3: 20-21 20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Heresy indeed!
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Matt Black Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
And I guess Jesus Himself didn't get the Baptists' memo either: "a man is born again by water[/b] and the Spirit" (Jn 3:5). Oh well...
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None of these teach what you teach.
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