There you go! Amen!
Drinking
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Brian30755, May 5, 2012.
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
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So we are "required" to drink wine at communion? And if we don't? Hellfire? -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
as far as communion. Knowing Jewish passover custom I believe real wine is used during Jesus' last supper and wine is what he meant when he instituted communion.
As for not using wine at communion I would say that rule only applies to you and you must use manishevits. :laugh: Just in case you don't get my sarcasm that was a joke. -
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Oh...and why don't you tell us how they kept grape juice fresh from harvest in late summer to passover in spring...in the middle east...without freezing and refrigeration? This ought to be good :laugh: -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
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If I’m not mistaken and Thinkingstuff can correct me on this…but the Roman Catholic Church doesn’t require one to partake in the wine itself as they believe the wafer offered contains both the body and blood of Christ...the cup is available for those wishing to partake however…It’s my understanding that when the Aids scare started is when Catholics made the cup an option, because the cup was shared with everyone…
As an Orthodox Christian myself, we partake in both the bread and the wine…there is no choice…as both elements are combined in one cup and a small piece of bread and wine are served to us with a spoon…
And the reason we and the Roman Catholic and maybe even a few Mainline Protestant Churches use real wine is because real wine was used during the Last Supper…which was essentially Christ instituting the Eucharist celebration… -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
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And this withholding of the cup business has been done for centuries in the RC church; it is not just a recent innovation in response to AIDS. -
Again, I can’t speak for all the Roman Catholic Churches, but the ones I did visit did in fact offer the cup of wine to its parishioners, but it was up to the parishioners to decided whether or not to partake…now there may have been a time when the cup wasn’t offered at all, but I’m not sure…
Today, and this is the same with the Orthodox Christian Church, there has to be enough wine and bread present to give to their whole congregation…there’s no way a priest knows how many people will show up for service, because the consecration of the elements begins during our Orthos service almost 2 hours before our Liturgy even begins at 10am…so in the case of the Orthodox Church…the priest brings enough bread and wine to the altar to cover what he feels attendance will be like…and a good priest who knows his congregation can get pretty close to the correct amount, but there’s always some left over…
In the case of the Roman Catholic Church their priest can make a judgment call on the fly…as their wafers come in a box…they grab what they need and offer their prayers in the consecration…our bread is baked by parishioners in their homes and our process of consecration is a lot more in depth than the RC Church, as I stated before…our consecrational prayers start 2 hours before our Liturgy begins…
It’s also a myth that priests get drunk off the wine afterwards…Not sure about the Roman Catholic Church, but in the Orthodox Christian Church, the wine we use during communion isn’t straight up wine…the priests dilute the cup with warm water to the point where one could drink the whole cup and not even get a buzz… -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
However, I did note that since steaver doesn't even believe in the real presence offered in both species, he deprives himself anyway of the graces intended in the sacrament so an absence of wine isn't really an issue for him.
But to get back to the thread noting that both Catholics and Orthodox consider actual wine to be a necissary part of communion I think it speaks for the probability of actual wine used in the infant church having been instituted that way by Jesus himself. I agree with most on this thread with regard to alcohol. Wine isn't bad. IE Jesus teaching it isn't what goes into the man that defiles him but what comes out of the heart. Wine doesn't defile a man. Drunkeness which comes out of the heart of man due to lack of moderation and self control and is a type of glutony defiles the man. Not the wine iteself.
As far a priest getting drunk after service thats a myth. The priest who have disobeyed their bishops (not to speak of their faith) and got drunk (which is a sin) did so at a tavern not mass. This behavior is wrong and if discovered the priest would be disciplined. -
You still have not explained why you think we as NT beleivers are required to follow this particular requirement of OT kings, but not others.
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You cannot reference a passage that speaks of God's instructions to a single OT king for a certain purpose for Israel at a certain specific time.
Proverbs 31, however, speaks to ALL kings and not just Lemuel, it is a proverbial prophecy. Proverb; "a wise saying or precept; a didactic sentence" -
The same question could also be asked of priests...why is one prohibition given to ON-DUTY Old Testament priests applicalbe to us today, when there are many other instructions given to priests that are not?
You are singling out the issue of Drinking alcohol for some reason that you have yet to point out. -
Steaver...still waiting on how fresh grape juice was kept from late summer to spring without freezing and in the middle east. Are you just going to pretend it was still fresh juice at the Passover, or are you actually going to try instilling a little logic in this debate?
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