Ergun Caner controversy

[Dale-c]

By the way, in case I failed to mention, I have met Dr White as well. I have also been a regular in his chat channel so I have gotten to know him pretty well.
The man is not perfect, but over all he is a "humble scholar" and above all he does love the truth.

I still have heard no defense of Caner's claims that he was born in Turkey or that he lived over seas until his teenage years.
i have seen no attempt to explain why Caner can claim to debate people that say they have never debated Caner.

 

[Allan]

By the way, in case I failed to mention, I have met Dr White as well. I have also been a regular in his chat channel so I have gotten to know him pretty well.
The man is not perfect, but over all he is a "humble scholar" and above all he does love the truth.

I still have heard no defense of Caner's claims that he was born in Turkey or that he lived over seas until his teenage years.
i have seen no attempt to explain why Caner can claim to debate people that say they have never debated Caner.

Why not ask him?

 

[go2church]

Strangely enough he has refused to answer any questions on this topic. He issued a statement saying as much. Transparency certainly doesn't seem to be his strong suit. I guess he doesn't have time to clear his name or be confirmed a liar.

 

[Dale-c]

Why not ask him?

As go2church has said, that is the whole problem. Plenty of people have asked him. He is refusing to answer.
It certainly appears he has no answers.
The way things stand right now, there are a ton of contradictions.

 

[gb93433]

The way things stand right now, there are a ton of contradictions.

Do you mean between one truth and a number of lies?

 

[Jerome]

White is driven by the truth. He is obsessed with truth.

Sure he is.

 

[Allan]

As go2church has said, that is the whole problem. Plenty of people have asked him. He is refusing to answer.
It certainly appears he has no answers.
The way things stand right now, there are a ton of contradictions.

So you are saying that 'YOU' have not asked him, nor are 'YOU' planning on asking him. But instead you choose not to follow scripture but to continue in perpetuating what someone else says, as though it is the truth - even you not only don't know the actaul truth nor does it seem you care enough about a brother in Christ TO know?

Is it truth or not, why has it not been addressed?
Don't ask me, ask him.

In relation to Mr White however.. he and Caner are pretty similar in character. The 'debate' mentioned in this FAILED to note that White was as much at fault and as childish as Caner was. Both need a good time out for their behaviors. They both have many ardent fans that neither group seems willing to see the actaul faults nor errors of their champion.

 

[Rippon]

Caner's Contradictions Abound

So you are saying that 'YOU' have not asked him, nor are 'YOU' planning on asking him. But instead you choose not to follow scripture but to continue in perpetuating what someone else says, as though it is the truth - even you not only don't know the actaul [sic]truth nor does it seem you care enough about a brother in Christ TO know?

Is it truth or not, why has it not been addressed?
Don't ask me, ask him.

You are on the wrong side of this issue too. Caner has lied repeatedly about his background ever since September 11,2001. At that time he developed a certain persona in which he made certain claims about his Islamic connections to bolster his presence in different venues.

Was he born in Sweden or Turkey?

Did he come to America at 2 or in his late teens after being reared in an Islamic country?

Was he an ordinary kid from Ohio, or was he a hardened terrorist or Jihadist?

Did he speak poor English at 18 or not?

Did he come to that little country church wearing a tuban or not?

Did his mother wear coverings for years after coming back to America?

You'll get various responses for these and a host of other items issuing forth from him!

Contrary to his claims made in Feb (which have since been removed) he did in fact intentionally mislead multitudes of folks for almost a decade.

Get with the program. Check out what the facts are. Note the blogs of Debby Kaufman and her pastor Wade Burleson. See also Turretin Fan, FBC Jax Watchdog,Mo Khan and Mirele's Miscellany.

If you want to be on the wrong side join the ranks of Peter Lumpkins and Tim Rogers. But I'm warning you -- if you side with the latter two you will be ashamed in due time.

 

[Mexdeaf]

Perhaps we should not be surprised. Fundamentalism has always had it's 'Achilles Heel' of braggadocio: biggest church, biggest sinner saved, biggest bus ministry, biggest one-day attendance, largest number of people baptized on one day outside of Pentecost, "Dr." this and "Dr." that.

Didn't our Lord say something like, "the first shall be last and the last shall be first"?

I am grateful for the good that LU and TRBC do, but in this instance a little (OK- a LOT) of humility and confession would go a long way. IMHO it would be best for Caner to own up and at least offer to resign. Otherwise LU will continue to lose credibility.

 

[Allan]

You are on the wrong side of this issue too. Caner has lied repeatedly about his background ever since September 11,2001. At that time he developed a certain persona in which he made certain claims about his Islamic connections to bolster his presence in different venues.

Was he born in Sweden or Turkey?

Did he come to America at 2 or in his late teens after being reared in an Islamic country?

Was he an ordinary kid from Ohio, or was he a hardened terrorist or Jihadist?

Did he speak poor English at 18 or not?

Did he come to that little country church wearing a tuban or not?

Did his mother wear coverings for years after coming back to America?

You'll get various responses for these and a host of other items issuing forth from him!

Contrary to his claims made in Feb (which have since been removed) he did in fact intentionally mislead multitudes of folks for almost a decade.

Get with the program. Check out what the facts are. Note the blogs of Debby Kaufman and her pastor Wade Burleson. See also Turretin Fan, FBC Jax Watchdog,Mo Khan and Mirele's Miscellany.

If you want to be on the wrong side join the ranks of Peter Lumpkins and Tim Rogers. But I'm warning you -- if you side with the latter two you will be ashamed in due time.

Read what I said again and you will the entire 'above' is meaningless with respect to what I said.

So I will ask you the same question.. Have you asked HIM? At least tried to?
..thought about it?? Didn't think so.

It is seriously dangerous stuff to presume to know the heart of someone for what they do or do not do and judge it based on your 'assumption'. That is God's domain alone.. not Rippons, or mine, or anyone elses. Whether he did them or not, it is not for you to judge his heart in the matter.. actions actaully committed establishing sin, this scripture permits but not to judge the intent of his heart.

 

[Allan]

I am grateful for the good that LU and TRBC do, but in this instance a little (OK- a LOT) of humility and confession would go a long way. IMHO it would be best for Caner to own up and at least offer to resign. Otherwise LU will continue to lose credibility.

On the above, I agree, according to the accusation that are proven.
Some of the issues given could easly be understood as forgetfulness..
others one could honestly question.

Anyone who deals with memory knows recollection is not always going to be the same. It will have varrying details, something remembered something forgetten. Police, phyciatrists, and attorneys deal with this a lot. Any story that can be remembered verbatem, all accounts and actions and items, perfectly - is one that was fabricated. Each telling should have some inconstencancies here and there. This is not to excuse things outside this realm, but explaining small things, ie.. like was he wearing his turban or not?

 

[Rippon]

Some of the issues given could easly be understood as forgetfulness..

It's not a mere matter of memory lapse. He has lied repeatedly.

"Let's see. I keep getting confused. Was I born in Sweden or Turkey? Both nations start with... No, that won't work."

Anyone who deals with memory knows recollection is not always going to be the same. It will have varrying details, something remembered something forgetten. Police, phyciatrists,[sic] and attorneys deal with this a lot. Any story that can be remembered verbatem, all accounts and actions and items, perfectly - is one that was fabricated. Each telling should have some inconstencancies [sic]here and there. This is not to excuse things outside this realm, but explaining small things, ie.. like was he wearing his turban or not?

There you go trying to rationalize his sinfulness.

Caner is a fraud. He has been a pretender all along.

 

[Rippon]

It is seriously dangerous stuff to presume to know the heart of someone for what they do or do not do and judge it based on your 'assumption'. That is God's domain alone.. not Rippons, [sic]or mine, or anyone elses.[sic] Whether he did them or not, it is not for you to judge his heart in the matter.. actions actaully [sic]committed establishing sin, this scripture permits but not to judge the intent of his heart.

He lied repeatedly over a period of almost a decade. That's a fact. Stop trying to defend the indefensible. You'll end up with egg all over your face.

 

[Mexdeaf]

On the above, I agree, according to the accusation that are proven.
Some of the issues given could easly be understood as forgetfulness..
others one could honestly question.

Anyone who deals with memory knows recollection is not always going to be the same. It will have varrying details, something remembered something forgetten. Police, phyciatrists, and attorneys deal with this a lot. Any story that can be remembered verbatem, all accounts and actions and items, perfectly - is one that was fabricated. Each telling should have some inconstencancies here and there. This is not to excuse things outside this realm, but explaining small things, ie.. like was he wearing his turban or not?

The king had no clothes, he wasn't just caught with his fly open.

You know what I mean?

 

[preachinjesus]

Some of the issues given could easly be understood as forgetfulness..others one could honestly question.

Anyone who deals with memory knows recollection is not always going to be the same. It will have varrying details, something remembered something forgetten. Police, phyciatrists, and attorneys deal with this a lot. Any story that can be remembered verbatem, all accounts and actions and items, perfectly - is one that was fabricated. Each telling should have some inconstencancies here and there. This is not to excuse things outside this realm, but explaining small things, ie.. like was he wearing his turban or not?

You can't claim forgetfulness for such a systematic line of irreconcilable statements. The points Rippon brings up are very good questions. I don't know, maybe I'm a savant or something (no comments about the idiot part:smilewinkgrin but I can pretty clearly remember where I grew up, how I was raised, whether or not I wore baseball caps...seems to me formative things like this are important.

 

[gb93433]

It would be very easy for someone to post a copy of their birth certificate. People of integrity welcome such scrutiny.

 

[go2church]

For me it isn't so much the actual birth date as much as it is his refusal to address the his translation problems, the covering up of mistakes with changing web site info and clever video editing and the inconsistent background (timeline) of when and how he became a Christian.

There has to be more from him then just "I have spoken thousands of times and in those times I misspoke, sorry about that I'll do better".

There are legitimate questions that he is refusing to answer that reflect poorly on his character as a minister and on the place he works as an institution preparing people for ministry.

 

[gb93433]

There are legitimate questions that he is refusing to answer that reflect poorly on his character as a minister and on the place he works as an institution preparing people for ministry.

Do you mean image building? Peter Lord spoke about that at a conference in about 1975.

 

[Petrabilt]

This is going to blow up like a volcano , Caner must go!

Will anyone at Liberty University or in the Southern Baptist Convention take steps to protect the name of Christ? Will Ergun Caner himself do so? Time is running short.

 

[Allan]

He lied repeatedly over a period of almost a decade. That's a fact. Stop trying to defend the indefensible. You'll end up with egg all over your face.

You mean like you, in not dealing with what I 'actaully' said.

I didn't say he did or did not lie. I said that there are some things which can fall into that catagory of memory, not most or all.