Ergun Caner controversy

[Allan]

You can't claim forgetfulness for such a systematic line of irreconcilable statements. The points Rippon brings up are very good questions. I don't know, maybe I'm a savant or something (no comments about the idiot part:smilewinkgrin but I can pretty clearly remember where I grew up, how I was raised, whether or not I wore baseball caps...seems to me formative things like this are important.

Some of you guys are acting raving wolves in your lust for blood, you aren't actaully listening. I didn't say his forgetfulness extends to everything, I said there are something to which it would encompass that should not be brought into this.

 

[Grasshopper]

It is seriously dangerous stuff to presume to know the heart of someone for what they do or do not do and judge it based on your 'assumption'. That is God's domain alone.. not Rippons, or mine, or anyone elses. Whether he did them or not, it is not for you to judge his heart in the matter.. actions actaully committed establishing sin, this scripture permits but not to judge the intent of his heart.

Yet you seem to know the character of James White. You said this:

In relation to Mr White however.. he and Caner are pretty similar in character.

Do you know the heart of James White?

Typical double talk.

 

[Dale-c]

Yet you seem to know the character of James White. You said this:



Do you know the heart of James White?

Typical double talk.

White and caner are nothing alike. For that matter, just read the email exchange from 2006 when they were supposed to debate.

 

[Grasshopper]

Great article: http://crbcviews.blogspot.com/2010/04/stephen-ambrose-ergun-caner-and.html

 

[Jerome]

Another: http://abbaslittlegirl.blogspot.com/2009/02/hardest-piece-ive-ever-written.html

 

[Mexdeaf]

Another: http://abbaslittlegirl.blogspot.com/2009/02/hardest-piece-ive-ever-written.html

Relativity?

 

[Allan]

Yet you seem to know the character of James White. You said this:



Do you know the heart of James White?

Typical double talk.

Typical ignorance of a subject.

Do you know the difference between character and the intent of doing something?

Apparently not.

 

[Allan]

White and caner are nothing alike. For that matter, just read the email exchange from 2006 when they were supposed to debate.

Yes, they were both childish.

 

[Revmitchell]

White and caner are nothing alike. For that matter, just read the email exchange from 2006 when they were supposed to debate.

They seem to have had similar problems. White claimed a degree before he received it:


http://www.shields-research.org/Novak/mail/white/letter9.htm

http://www.shields-research.org/Novak/mail/white/letter10.htm


And his degree was obtained from not much more than mail order:

http://www.shields-research.org/Novak/james.htm

http://jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2006/08/not_what_the_do.html

 

[Jerome]

What is it they say about glass houses and White-d sepulchres?

 

[Crucified in Christ]

I know neither Dr. Caner nor Dr. White and so I will not comment on their feud. I only want to say that Liberty University has worked very hard to build a solid reputation; even in some SBC circles, they are not quite there yet. Still, a great deal of progress has been made due to accreditation and the massive expansion the University and Seminary have made. If these charges are true, it will set Liberty way, way, way back! Liberty needs to be the one to look into this; surely, they would realize the damage, if these charges are true, that would be done to their institution for years to come. It is like my grandfather used to say, "before you bet your future on anyone (going into business with them), be as certain as you can of his character."

 

[Rippon]

I didn't say he did or did not lie. I said that there are some things which can fall into that catagory [sic]of memory, not most or all.

And I say again that you are trying to rationalize away Caner's serial lying with your post numbered 51.

You are ignorant of the subject here. Spend several hours doing some research and then come back and speak with a degree of knowledge of the subject under discussion.

 

[Rippon]

It's a Case Of Ergun Vs. Ergun

He is his own worse enemy. He can't keep abreast of all his lies through the years concerning his background.

Just after 9/11 Caner delivered a sermon and said things such as:" I walked into that little church, my English was very poor... they didn't make fun of the clothes I wore, or make fun of the fact that I wore a turban."

Versus :"I never wore laundry on my head."

Which Ergun do you believe?

 

[Allan]

And I say again that you are trying to rationalize away Caner's serial lying with your post numbered 51.

If you can't keep up, please quit replying.

You are ignorant of the subject here. Spend several hours doing some research and then come back and speak with a degree of knowledge of the subject under discussion.

No, you are the one displaying your ignorance here and it becoming a growing matter.

First, I have not given ANY position on the subject, however I am probably more abreast of the situation than you are. I have purposely steered clear of making any accusation against him nor making any specific defence for him. The ONLY thing I have stated is that for those who are 'wondering' and not wanting some new band wagon to jump on, to ask him for themselves instead of willingly regugitating gossip. Again - have you asked him.. tried to ask.. or has it even crossed you mind?

The other issue I have made has nothing do with whether he did or did not say certain things, but that some of the things given/mentioned fall more into a memory catagory and is really nothign more than his enemies trying to enlarge the issue with non-essentials that can easily be shown as common memory-lapse issues. This, as I said, was not to the majority, nor all but to certain things.

Now, try to speak with same a degree of knowledge and you pretend to bring to these..debates. It will give your posts a little more credibility.

 

[John Toppass]

And I say again that you are trying to rationalize away Caner's serial lying with your post numbered 51.

You are ignorant of the subject here. Spend several hours doing some research and then come back and speak with a degree of knowledge of the subject under discussion.

This is getting tiring, Allan has NOT made any excuses for anyone. No matter how many times you say it, He has made his self clear to the sane ones.

 

[Grasshopper]

They seem to have had similar problems. White claimed a degree before he received it:


http://www.shields-research.org/Novak/mail/white/letter9.htm

http://www.shields-research.org/Novak/mail/white/letter10.htm

Gee, I guess I missed the part where White defends himself. Why don't we post all the letters? I'll do it for you:

http://www.shields-research.org/Novak/mail/white/index.html

Yea boy, James White and Ergun Caner have the same problem. Oh wait, you have yet to admit Caner has a problem. Is this now an acknowledgement??

And his degree was obtained from not much more than mail order:

http://www.shields-research.org/Novak/james.htm

http://jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2006/08/not_what_the_do.html

:laugh: James White is just a big ole dummy. Let me know when you have accomplished as much as White:

http://aomin.org/articles/bio.html

You said this:

It may not be for you but the allegations are sourced from muslim hate sites.

So what do you do? Do you deal with the subject of Ergun Caner? No. You go after the messenger. What are your sources? 12 year old e-mails of MORMONS and a CATHOLIC Apologist.

You would rather join up with Mormons and Catholics to attack James White than deal with the real problems of Ergun Caner.

Funny if you would have put half of the research into Caner as you put in for White, you probably could save yourself much embarrassment that’s coming down the road.

It is clear what's going on here. The anti-Calvinists are going after James White instead of the liar Ergun Caner.

Keep circling those wagons.

 

[Grasshopper]

Typical ignorance of a subject.

Do you know the difference between character and the intent of doing something?

Apparently not.

So you are now qualified to judge the character of James White? Is that what you are saying??

Piece of advice Allan. It's alright to be silent or say "I don't know" when dealing with topics you are clueless about.

Can I make a suggestion. Why don't you actually LISTEN to the words of Ergun Caner himself. You don't need third hand information. Let me give you a clue:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078607/

Notice the 1979 date? Interesting how a boy in Turkey in the early 70's watched this show.

One of many lies.

 

[Rippon]

First, I have not given ANY position on the subject, however I am probably more abreast of the situation than you are.

Your comment is both funny and sad at the same time. From your remarks so far it is very clear that you haven't a clue. You are defending Caner;regardless of how you spin it. What will your reaction be when Caner has to resign? Will you still defend him because of your memory lapse theory? Perhaps children will try to use your excuse when they lie to their parents."Sorry mom, I must have had a memory-lapse experience like Ergun Caner."

The ONLY thing I have stated is that for those who are 'wondering' and not wanting some new band wagon to jump on, to ask him for themselves instead of willingly regugitating [sic]gossip.

Listen closely: He has done himself in. He's not in hot water because of anyone smearing him -- he is in trouble because he has lied constantly over a period of almost a decade.He has done this to himself. He and Liberty try to cover up things by editing and giving a different take. But he has not made a clean sweep of anything. All he has said so far is that he may have said things wrongly,caused confusion, scrambled things etc. That is not a confession on his part. He has deliberately lied over and over again -- and it has caught up with him.

The other issue I have made has nothing do with whether he did or did not say certain things, but that some of the things given/mentioned fall more into a memory catagory [sic]and is really nothign [sic]more than his enemies trying to enlarge the issue with non-essentials that can easily be shown as common memory-lapse issues.

Back to your weak rationale again. Sin is not sin in your book. His continual lies about his background are just non-essentials according to you. That's a shame.

Allan, sit this one out until you have done some research as I've suggested before. You'll have to eat your words as it is. You are on the wrong side of this issue. You can't claim middle ground. You are defending a fraud.That's not a good place to be.

 

[TomVols]

Because I know both men personally, I've tried to stay out. But this one got me. Someone took a shot at James White because his doctorate was from Columbia Evangelical, an unaccredited seminary. However, the reason it's not is because it is set up precisely like the South African seminary that Ergun got a degree from. You cannot have it both ways.

 

[Dale-c]

What is it they say about glass houses and White-d sepulchres?

Jerome, do you ever have anything more to say than a little one line post that typically stirs things up?