The theological issue here is whether or not God would have his people utilizing government power to enforce morality.
Most Baptists, I figure, think that we should use the power of the federal government to enforce morality.
Pass laws against the use of alcohol.
Pass laws against the use of marijuana.
Pass laws against sodomy.
Pass laws against homosexual marriage.
Force everybody to live the way we want by bringing down the full force of the American government on them.
Is that Biblical?
It is surely an inconsistency among conservative evangelicals who claim to believe in shrinking the size of the government and shrinking the interference of government in our lives.
Do you believe in enforcing morality through the expansion of government power?
Expanding government to enforce morality
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Luke2427, Apr 26, 2014.
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
All laws are based on morality.
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Agree with both of the above...
ALL LAW is a moral statement informing SOME expression of morality.
The tired stupid cliche' that you "can't legislate morality" is inherently false and internally illogical.
Even speed limits are inherent espressions of a moral concept....namely, that one man has no right to endager another by his excessive speed on a publically shared highway....
Or, to put it differently, it is amoral and therefore illegal to put another in Jeopardy of possible manslaughter.
As Rev and T.N.D. suggest, laws against rape, murder, theft etc... are all enforcement of moral judgements against certain actions. The only question is which particular moral judgements are the proper purview of a secular legal system. -
just-want-peace Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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"Bad men cannot make good citizens. It is impossible that a nation of infidels or idolaters should be a nation of freemen. It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains. A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is incompatible with freedom." Patrick Henry (supposedly)
More laws = more links in the chains
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Inspector Javert said: ↑Attempting prohibition of a substance used by 9/10ths of the World's population throughout essentially all of it's history is not equivalent to prohibition of relatively new mind-altering substances used by a far smaller segment of the population.
That analogy is hardly equivocal or instructive.Click to expand...
The "war on" speeding, car theft and murder have also been "dismal failures".Click to expand... -
kyredneck said: ↑Can't argue with that logic. Keep lockin' em' up and throw away the key, non-violent and all. It's workin' like a charm (dream on).Click to expand...
It just so happens we can look at the Netherlands by way of example.
Your snarky attitude against strict enforcement may dissuade you from comparing those stats to those of say.... Singapore....where extremely strict law enforcement is the law.
I'd encourage you to do some comparison and contrast between Singapore and their drug statistics and the status of countries like the Netherlands post legalization and before and see what you think the most effective policies would be...
As a matter of fact, I do believe that "lock 'em up and throw away the key"...is indeed quite effective, but, we DON'T do that in the U.S. not at all.
the Feds do, but the individual States absolutely DO NOT.
If you think drug traffickers are in a scenario of "lock 'em up and throw away the key" in the U.S. (except the Federal System) than you are mistaken. That is not at ALL the case. -
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kyredneck said: ↑Click to expand...
Are we "winning the war" on theft?
Are we "winning the war" on murder?
Are we "winning the war" on fraud?
Are we "winning the war" on speeding?
How exactly do you define "winning the war"?
Complete eradication?
100% success?
What is the concrete standard by which we can truly measure a "victory" in the war on drugs?
Will they surrender to us aboard the U.S.S. Missouri?
Guess we've lost the "war" on crime in general.
We should legalize all heretofore illegal activities that we haven't "won the war" on then I imagine. :rolleyes: -
Luke2427 said: ↑The theological issue here is whether or not God would have his people utilizing government power to enforce morality.
Most Baptists, I figure, think that we should use the power of the federal government to enforce morality.
Pass laws against the use of alcohol.
Pass laws against the use of marijuana.
Pass laws against sodomy.
Pass laws against homosexual marriage.
Force everybody to live the way we want by bringing down the full force of the American government on them.
Is that Biblical?
It is surely an inconsistency among conservative evangelicals who claim to believe in shrinking the size of the government and shrinking the interference of government in our lives.
Do you believe in enforcing morality through the expansion of government power?Click to expand... -
Revmitchell said: ↑All laws are based on morality.Click to expand...
But what morals do we want to force on people and what morals do we want them to be free to choose to practice or not?
For example, do we want the federal government to tell every American citizen they must not fail to attend a Baptist church on Sunday when physically able under penalty of law?
Do we want to outlaw gluttony? Are you for Bloomberg's law against 16 oz. sodas?
Do you arbitrarily choose which morals you want the government ot force on people? -
Inspector Javert said: ↑Ask yourself this question....
Are we "winning the war" on theft?
Are we "winning the war" on murder?
Are we "winning the war" on fraud?
Are we "winning the war" on speeding?
How exactly do you define "winning the war"?
Complete eradication?
100% success?
What is the concrete standard by which we can truly measure a "victory" in the war on drugs?
Will they surrender to us aboard the U.S.S. Missouri?
Guess we've lost the "war" on crime in general.
We should legalize all heretofore illegal activities that we haven't "won the war" on then I imagine. :rolleyes:Click to expand...
Drinking in your home does not.
Smoking weed in your home does not. And I despise the idea of smoking weed. I despise the culture of it. But I am objective and intellectually honest. The fact is that we ought to want government to be involved in as little as possible of our lives.