Your post sounds like a rebellious teenager.
It is prudent for a school to have some type of system in place to keep tract of the students that are under their care. Yes I did say under their care, the students that are living on campus, in a dorm are under their care. If and when a student pays to move off campus then he/she is no longer under their care.
Extremely strict colleges...your thoughts?
Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by rbell, Nov 8, 2010.
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That is a jump that a lot of people, especially college students, want to make jaigner, that
Some college students may actually be responsible adults but many are not. Think of a college student and ask yourself these questions:
- Are they working and paying taxes?
- Are they paying their own way through school?
- Can someone else claim them as a dependent on their income taxes?
- Are they on someone else’s family health insurance plan?
- Are they driving a car that is registered to and insured by someone else?
Now you tell me jaigner, how many of them are adults? I know that there are plenty of parents out there that think something magical happens on their child’s 18th birthday and after that it’s not their problem anymore, but the truth is that for several years still they are growing into adulthood.
Some kids need more guidance and direction than others. Some kids need stricter schools than others. Ever hear of a judge telling a young man or woman they will drop charges if they enlist in the military? Within the armed forces they have structure and rules some kids need. Yea, after basic it gets easier, but they still have to show up for work or someone will come looking for them.
No one is ever forced to go to one of these strict schools, it is a personal choice; a choice that many would not make, but so what? They don’t have to. A close friend that used to work in the administration of one such school told me once he told each incoming student, “That door you came in swings both ways, if you don’t want to be here don’t stay. Your parents or no one else can make you attend here, if you say they are I can kick you out right now and we can fix that.” -
At our place, we are ever so free to try new things. We would freak out a lot of other church members and pastors, that's for sure. But we are also seeing the most amazing life changes as people are drawn to Jesus, justified, and begin their sanctification process.
Like I said, I've been in a ton of churches, and I've not experienced another anything like what we're doing -- for the most part -- save for a few exceptions across the nation that are noteworthy for doing similar things to us. Oh, we're also planting churches like crazy. We have 3 campuses that are united with us in various sections of Louisville, but have also sent out teams to many other cities across the nation. What we're doing here works everywhere, but may look radically different. Even in our 3 campuses in Louisville, the vibe from service to service (not to mention church to church) is different enough that changing times or places is like a whole new place, yet we are united together in Christ as one big family. -
I did not say more leave than stay. You misrepresented my statement. Many hundreds, no doubt, stay and function as perfect little automatons and carbon copies of the staff of the "extremely strict" institution they attended.
And I am sure that a few actually maintain their individuality and do not become carbon copies.
But my experience, having attended one of these types of "institutions" and having been exposed to "fundamentalism" for better than two decades says that most are just little copies of whatever IFB hero that particular institution is fashioned after. -
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My bias likely comes from how my 18-22 years went--
I was completely on my own after my first semester at college. Paid my own way. Car, insurance, gas, spending money, health insurance, the whole bit. Full-time at school, plus full-time employment.
(can you tell it was a few years ago? Probably not possible now...)
Anyhow, some of you are right that many 18-20 year-olds are likely not ready for complete freedom...
I was. (not saying I handled things perfectly, but I took care of my business, and didn't live in idiot mode--though I visited once or twice).
Jerome, sorry that my posts irritate you so much. Perhaps an analgesic cream would help? :eek: :D -
Schools have the responsibility to keep the campus safe. When I was at Baylor, we could leave any time we wanted, but we'd need our ID to get back into the dorm. That's a must for music students, who sometimes have to practice during the wee hours.
Heck, the library was open 24 hours.
Schools are not responsible for the behavior of legal adults who pay them to live on campus. -
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I am sure you were very independent as you have told us, but that does not change that fact that your view would be in the minority from what most parents would expect of a school where their child is living on their campus.
I even doubt most freshmen if asked would consider living in a dorm as "living on their own". Living away from home yes, but until they are paying for an apartment, and stop eating in a cafeteria, they are far from "own their own". -
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
It's very true that students who go to such colleges are usually already used to the strict culture the college represents. However, I can't recall off hand any case whatsoever where kids were sent to the colleges I know about because they couldn't handle life on their own and needed rigid rules. In the fundamentalist culture such kids are sent to a "home" of some kind to get their life in order. -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
BJU: 3903 undergrads (not counting the grad school)
Maranatha BBC: 908
Northland International U.: 617
Crown College: 1294
etc.
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John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite SupporterLuke2427 said: ↑Then I was right. You're certainly NOT graduating thousands, are you?Click to expand...
And I am curious to know if BJU really qualifies as one of these "extremely strict" colleges. I honestly don't know.Click to expand...
I hope you can learn to read more thoroughly. The very quote you provided showed extraordinarily clearly that I said that many more become disillusioned and leave OR BECOME LITTLE CARBON COPIES. Pay attention, John. Carbon copies stay. If you are going to make smart alek remarks like "I hope you learn to state things more clearly" then at least have a point. 10-4?Click to expand...
I am being abrasive. I apologize. You are right. I hope you will try to understand that I have been burned by one of these institutions and one of these movements and they seem almost evil to me. I do, however, realize that there are many wonderful servants of God who come from them- like yourself- in spite of these silly, suffocating, personality wiping, carbon copy making, automaton programming institutions.Click to expand...
I have been burned by fundamentalists, too. One leading fundamentalist wrote a pamphlet against my grandfather in the early 1970s (with his name in the title), alleging among other things that granddad had bribed me to switch colleges, which was a lie. So I was slandered by a fundamentalist leader to the broader movement. I got over it, and you will too.
I'm still a fundamentalist not because of the personalities, but because I believe the practice of "earnestly contending for the faith" is right and Biblical. All movements have their critics, and all movements have genuine failures that should be criticized. On the other hand, every movement has people that go overboard and are nasty in un-Christian ways. According to my family, after the 1957 New York Crusade when fundamentalists criticized Graham for having liberals on the committee, Graham himself kept quiet, but one of his relatives wrote some very nasty stuff. I've read that relative's biography, and he did do a good work for Christ, though he lapsed that time. The trick in such a case is to keep our eyes on Jesus, amen?
I do believe that these movements, at least the ones in the Southeast for the past few decades are issue oriented rather than Christ exalting. They are more concerned with the "old paths" than The Way. They make more of standards than they do the Savior. Many of their pastors and leaders are popes who speak ex cathedra with no bible whatsoever to support their positions. And these types are evil and do ten thousand times the harm than the little good they produce.
But I recognize on the same token that there are many wonderful IFB pastors- like Clarence Sexton whose church I have attended, whose pastor's conference is very good, whose history hall is awesome whose preaching is expository and often christocentric, whose college is overly strict and a bit stifling and carbon copy making but at least it is a copy of good men like Sexton and Scott Pauly.Click to expand...
But on the SAME TOKEN Sheldon Smith tossed Sexton from the Sword conference!Click to expand...Click to expand... -
John of Japan said: ↑Luke2427 said: ↑I'd estimate at least a couple of thousand IFB grads per year. There are quite a few schools I didn't mention, some sizeable.Click to expand...
I went to BJU in 1970-72, and it was quite strict then. Our newest missionary got his M. Div. there some time ago, and says it is still strict.Click to expand...
IMO you've been unclear before, and I stand by my statement that, to me at least, you were unclear this time.Click to expand...
Thank you for the apology.Click to expand...
I have been burned by fundamentalists, too. One leading fundamentalist wrote a pamphlet against my grandfather in the early 1970s (with his name in the title), alleging among other things that granddad had bribed me to switch colleges, which was a lie. So I was slandered by a fundamentalist leader to the broader movement. I got over it, and you will too.Click to expand...
This has produced a bunch of junk and pastors who are popes- and I predict, apart from a great revival, will be the poison that ultimately kills IFB.
I'm still a fundamentalist not because of the personalities, but because I believe the practice of "earnestly contending for the faith" is right and Biblical.Click to expand...
All movements have their critics, and all movements have genuine failures that should be criticized. On the other hand, every movement has people that go overboard and are nasty in un-Christian ways. According to my family, after the 1957 New York Crusade when fundamentalists criticized Graham for having liberals on the committee, Graham himself kept quiet, but one of his relatives wrote some very nasty stuff. I've read that relative's biography, and he did do a good work for Christ, though he lapsed that time. The trick in such a case is to keep our eyes on Jesus, amen?Click to expand...
I wish you could have been at Tennessee Temple when I was there. I still appreciate the great ministry of Lee Roberson, and the godly teachers I had in the college and seminary. Those who came out automatons did so because they ignored the teaching and example of these good men and women.Click to expand...Click to expand...Click to expand... -
My parents kept a leash (it got yanked when we messed up. Otherwise, it wasn't kept tight) on my sister and me when we were growing up. They taught me responsibility in making decisions. When I left home I didn't need a hovering parent or school to watch over me. I had been equipped to make good decisions and to accept responsibility for the bad ones that I made. I am doing the same with my son. My wife and I are trying to teach him personal responsibility, self-discipline, responsible independence, and discernment. Our prayer is that when he leaves home he will be equipped to live on his own without us having to hover over him keeping tabs on his every move. If not, I'll be sure to do one of two things. I'll send him to Pensacola Christian College where there are rules galore and folks to keep tabs on him. Or better yet, send him to the Army or Marines and let a drill sergeant do what I failed to do.
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John of Japan said: ↑I'm still a fundamentalist not because of the personalities, but because I believe the practice of "earnestly contending for the faith" is right and iblical.Click to expand...
But is it right and biblical to be legalistic moralists who care more about appearances than radical heart change? Because that's the experience most people have with fundies. -
sag38 said: ↑My parents kept a leash (it got yanked when we messed up. Otherwise, it wasn't kept tight) on my sister and me when we were growing up. They taught me responsibility in making decisions. When I left home I didn't need a hovering parent or school to watch over me. I had been equipped to make good decisions and to accept responsibility for the bad ones that I made. I am doing the same with my son. My wife and I are trying to teach him personal responsibility, self-discipline, responsible independence, and discernment. Our prayer is that when he leaves home he will be equipped to live on his own without us having to hover over him keeping tabs on his every move. If not, I'll be sure to do one of two things. I'll send him to Pensacola Christian College where there are rules galore and folks to keep tabs on him. Or better yet, send him to the Army or Marines and let a drill sergeant do what I failed to do.Click to expand...
Additionally, many colleges including my daughters have a zero tolerance policy to drugs and alcohol. In my daughter's college, even if you are 21, there is NO alcohol allowed on the campus. Is this still being overprotective or is it their right to do so? -
Luke2427 said: ↑No criticism from me against Tennessee Temple nor Dr. Roberson in the least. A very bright spot for IFB's in my opinion.Click to expand...
To keep track of students’ location and safety, we ask them to fill out permission forms with the Student Development Office, or their Resident Director, for any time they will be away from campus overnight. We ask that students let us know where they are going and with whom. Students are discouraged from being off campus overnight on Monday-Thursday, as this may be a hindrance to their studies. Permissions for Monday-Thursday may be limited if a student is gone a disproportionate amount of nights.
All permissions must be filled out, approved, picked up, and posted on the student’s door (only when in use) in order to be valid. A permission slip not picked up by the time it is needed is considered invalid. Any misuse of permission will result in points, disciplinary action, and/or fines.Click to expand...
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