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Faith a gift

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by psalms109:31, Nov 13, 2011.

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  1. Is Faith a gift by grace that only chosen person has by which they have done nothing to receive.

    9 vote(s)
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  2. Faith a gift for all, only those accept it are saved by grace as in their debt they owe is paid for.

    6 vote(s)
    30.0%
  3. Other explain

    5 vote(s)
    25.0%
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  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Election is never presented as anyones hope for salvation - never. Election is simply God's choice of some to be saved at a later date in history. God has also elected/chose the means by which they will be saved - regeneration by the Spirit and beleif of the truth - 2 Thes. 2:13-14

    Second, not one single person elected unto salvation ever fails to be saved because "all" that the Father gave to the Son are given eternal life (Jn. 17:2) and "all" the Father gives to the Son come to him in faith (Jn. 6:37) and "all" of them that come to him in faith not one will perish (Jn. 6:39) not one of them perishes (Jn. 6:37-39).

    Election does not save anyone. Faith in the gospel is what saves. However, election secures faith in the gospel (Acts 13:48; 1 Thes. 1:4-5; 2 Thes. 2;13).
     
  2. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    Election did not save the Jews, so election is no guarantee but we see those who trusting in Jesus received what they did not. I found trusting in the finished work of Jesus Christ more secure. So those are the people God choose. God said He will keep the meek and the humble who trust in the Lord and hide the truth from the wise and learned so I will continue to trust. So no one will say I choose myself and say God did.

    My name is not written in the Holy Bible as one of the elect or saved so I will trust in the finished work of Christ He is my salvation.
     
    #142 psalms109:31, Nov 18, 2011
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  3. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    When quoting Mr. Spurgeon, best remember ALL that Mr. Spurgeon taught, and not one isolated quote, which may very well misrepresent what He truly believed. He was a solid 5-point Calvinist.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  4. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    I am glad Spurgeon fight against hyper-calvinism His quote shows where regeneration before faith comes from. I would quote pages of spurgeon in context if I could and I have. I love that the inspired word is more important than his doctinal view.
     
    #144 psalms109:31, Nov 18, 2011
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  5. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    No Brother, I am not confusing anything. I showed these verses to show that the great works that these people did, they did through the Spirit working within/through them, but they did not have the permanent indwelling until after Jesus' completed work of the cross.

    Look @ the twelve Disciples. They came back one time, marvelling that the demons obeyed what they told them to do. Jesus told them to marvel not at this, but rather, that their names were written in heaven. In John 20:22, Jesus breathed upon them, and then, and only then. did they receive the Spirit. So, they did miracles through the Spirit working with/through them, but not permanently in them(at that time). Jesus had even given them power to perform these miracles, and yet, they did not receive the Spirit until John 20:22.


    Luke 10:19-21
    19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

    20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

    21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.




    Furhtermore, when they asked Jesus if they should call for fire to come down from heaven, Jesus told them that they did not know what spirit they were of.

    Luke 9:53-55
    53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.

    54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

    55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.



    I know we will disagree, but I do appreciate the civilness of this conversation.
     
    #145 convicted1, Nov 18, 2011
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  6. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    There were indeed an elect remnant of the Jews saved in every generation (Rom. 11:5) and God will save the nation of Israel in the yet future at Christ's return "according to election" (Rom. 11:25-28) even though that nation presently are "enemies of the gospel" now for our sakes they are "but beloved of the fathers" according to election (Rom. 11:28). Every single elecct jew has been saved and the elect "nation" will be saved in God's appointed time just as individual elect are saved in God's appointed time.
     
  7. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    And all this, they did through faith. And faith is a gift of God....:D


    Come on fellas, we need to stay on topic or these will get closed thisquick. I know I am guilty, too, so don't think I am pointing at everyone but me.:) :laugh: :wavey:
     
  8. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    It is through trust that all this will happen, when we make them jealous. The Jews know who the elect are them. It is never us we have been included with the believing Jews. I pray through love we will make them jealous that the day will come.

    Ephesians 1:13
    And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,


    To be included means I wasn't there in the first place. It is the Jews who are elected before the foundation of the world. Those who were cut out was for unbelief. We gentiles was included when we heard the Gospel of our salvation having believed. God will also include back in the Jews if they do not persist in their unbelief.

    You think it is just election. I see it as election through trust in Jesus. Those who trust in Jesus is the one's who will not be disappointed or put to shame.
     
    #148 psalms109:31, Nov 18, 2011
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  9. Jon-Marc

    Jon-Marc New Member

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    Since ALL good things come from God, I would belive that faith to be saved also is a gift from God. We cannot take ANY credit whatsoever for our salvation; that includes believing that we can do anything good enough to earn or keep our salvation--"NOT of works, lest any man shall boast." Eph. 2:9
     
  10. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    Do we really know what faith is and how we received it?

    Do we really know what faith is and how we received it?

    Spurgeon "All of Grace"
    Faith, What is it?

    WHAT IS THIS FAITH concerning which it is said, "By grace are ye saved, through faith?" There are many descriptions of faith; but almost all the definitions I have met with have made me understand it less than I did before I saw them. The Negro said, when he read the chapter, that he would confound it; and it is very likely that he did so, though he meant to expound it. We may explain faith till nobody understands it. I hope I shall not be guilty of that fault. Faith is the simplest of all things, and perhaps because of its simplicity it is the more difficult to explain.

    What is faith? It is made up of three things--knowledge, belief, and trust. Knowledge comes first. "How shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?" I want to be informed of a fact before I can possibly believe it. "Faith cometh by hearing"; we must first hear, in order that we may know what is to be believed. "They that know thy name shall put their trust in thee." A measure of knowledge is essential to faith; hence the importance of getting knowledge. "Incline your ear, and come unto me; hear, and your soul shall live." Such was the word of the ancient prophet, and it is the word of the gospel still. Search the Scriptures and learn what the Holy Spirit teaches concerning Christ and His salvation. Seek to know God: "For he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." May the Holy Spirit give you the spirit of knowledge, and of the fear of the Lord! Know the gospel: know what the good news is, how it talks of free forgiveness, and of change of heart, of adoption into the family of God, and of countless other blessings. Know especially Christ Jesus the Son of God, the Saviour of men, united to us by His human nature, and yet one with God; and thus able to act as Mediator between God and man, able to lay His hand upon both, and to be the connecting link between the sinner and the Judge of all the earth. Endeavour to know more and more of Christ Jesus. Endeavour especially to know the doctrine of the sacrifice of Christ; for the point upon which saving faith mainly fixes itself is this--"God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them." Know that Jesus was "made a curse for us, as it is written, Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree." Drink deep of the doctrine of the substitutionary work of Christ; for therein lies the sweetest possible comfort to the guilty sons of men, since the Lord "made him to be sin for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." Faith begins with knowledge.

    The mind goes on to believe that these things are true. The soul believes that God is, and that He hears the cries of sincere hearts; that the gospel is from God; that justification by faith is the grand truth which God hath revealed in these last days by His Spirit more clearly than before. Then the heart believes that Jesus is verily and in truth our God and Saviour, the Redeemer of men, the Prophet, Priest, and King of His people. All this is accepted as sure truth, not to be called in question. I pray that you may at once come to this. Get firmly to believe that "the blood of Jesus Christ, God's dear Son, cleanseth us from all sin"; that His sacrifice is complete and fully accepted of God on man's behalf, so that he that believeth on Jesus is not condemned. Believe these truths as you believe any other statements; for the difference between common faith and saving faith lies mainly in the subjects upon which it is exercised. Believe the witness of God just as you believe the testimony of your own father or friend. "If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater."

    So far you have made an advance toward faith; only one more ingredient is needed to complete it, which is trust. Commit yourself to the merciful God; rest your hope on the gracious gospel; trust your soul on the dying and living Saviour; wash away your sins in the atoning blood; accept His perfect righteousness, and all is well. Trust is the lifeblood of faith; there is no saving faith without it. The Puritans were accustomed to explain faith by the word "recumbency." It meant leaning upon a thing. Lean with all your weight upon Christ. It would be a better illustration still if I said, fall at full length, and lie on the Rock of Ages. Cast yourself upon Jesus; rest in Him; commit yourself to Him. That done, you have exercised saving faith. Faith is not a blind thing; for faith begins with knowledge. It is not a speculative thing; for faith believes facts of which it is sure. It is not an unpractical, dreamy thing; for faith trusts, and stakes its destiny upon the truth of revelation. That is one way of describing what faith is.

    Let me try again. Faith is believing that Christ is what He is said to be, and that He will do what He has promised to do, and then to expect this of Him. The Scriptures speak of Jesus Christ as being God, God is human flesh; as being perfect in His character; as being made of a sin-offering on our behalf; as bearing our sins in His own body on the tree. The Scripture speaks of Him as having finished transgression, made an end of sin, and brought in everlasting righteousness. The sacred records further tell us that He "rose again from the dead," that He "ever liveth to make intercession for us," that He has gone up into the glory, and has taken possession of Heaven on the behalf of His people, and that He will shortly come again "to judge the world in righteousness, and his people with equity." We are most firmly to believe that it is even so; for this is the testimony of God the Father when He said, "This is my beloved Son; hear ye him." This also is testified by God the Holy Spirit; for the Spirit has borne witness to Christ, both in the inspired Word and by divers miracles, and by His working in the hearts of men. We are to believe this testimony to be true.

    Faith also believes that Christ will do what He has promised; that since He has promised to cast out none that come to Him, it is certain that He will not cast us out if we come to Him. Faith believes that since Jesus said, "The water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everasting life, it must be true; and if we get this living Water from Christ it will abide in us, and will well up within us in streams of holy life. Whatever Christ has promised to do He will do, and we must believe this, so as to look for pardon, justification, preservation, and eternal glory from His hands, according as He has promised them to believers in Him.

    Then comes the next necessary step. Jesus is what He is said to be, Jesus will do what He says He will do; therefore we must each one trust Him, saying, "He will be to me what He says He is, and He will do to me what He has promised to do; I leave myself in the hands of Him who is appointed to save, that He may save me. I rest upon His promise that He will do even as He has said." This is a saving faith, and he that hath it hath everlasting life. Whatever his dangers and difficulties, whatever his darkness and depression, whatever his infirmities and sins, he that believeth thus on Christ Jesus is not condemned, and shall never come into condemnation.

    May that explanation be of some service! I trust it may be used by the Spirit of God to direct my reader into immediate peace. "Be not afraid; only believe." Trust, and be at rest.

    My fear is lest the reader should rest content with understanding what is to be done, and yet never do it. Better the poorest real faith actually at work, than the best ideal of it left in the region of speculation. The great matter is to believe on the Lord Jesus at once. Never mind distinctions and definitions. A hungry man eats though he does not understand the composition of his food, the anatomy of his mouth, or the process of digestion: he lives because he eats. Another far more clever person understands thoroughly the science of nutrition; but if he does not eat he will die, with all his knowledge. There are, no doubt, many at this hour in Hell who understood the doctrine of faith, but did not believe. On the other hand, not one who has trusted in the Lord Jesus has ever been cast out, though he may never have been able intelligently to define his faith. Oh dear reader, receive the Lord Jesus into your soul, and you shall live forever! "He that believeth in Him hath everlasting life."
     
  11. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31 Active Member

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    "A hungry man eats though he does not understand the composition of his food, the anatomy of his mouth, or the process of digestion: he lives because he eats. Another far more clever person understands thoroughly the science of nutrition; but if he does not eat he will die, with all his knowledge. There are, no doubt, many at this hour in Hell who understood the doctrine of faith, but did not believe. On the other hand, not one who has trusted in the Lord Jesus has ever been cast out, though he may never have been able intelligently to define his faith. Oh dear reader, receive the Lord Jesus into your soul, and you shall live forever! “He that believeth in Him hath everlasting life.”

    C.H. Spurgeon
     
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