The subject in dispute is whether faith is an operation of human nature, or whether it is endowed supernaturally by the Spirit of God.
You already affirmed that it's part of human nature, and simply dormant until excited by the right stimulus.
Then you consumed vast quatities of bandwidth in trying to erase the distinction between the flesh and the Spirit, that is, between man's natural abilities and those abilities with which he is specially endowed by the Holy Spirit.
Since they're both given by God, you asked, and I quote, "WHAT IS THE FREAKIN' DIFFERENCE?"
So, what is your answer now? Is there a difference?
Flesh vs Spirit
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Aaron, Aug 5, 2011.
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Personally, I believe the grace to believe the gospel comes when one hears the gospel...seems the most logical, simple and basic understanding to me. "Faith comes through hearing..."
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:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: -
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You must be related to Karl Rove. -
No need to call one immature and childish. It's malicious. -
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'Preciate the support, fellas, but I am not at all put off by these cavils. The only minor irritation is Scandal's persistent refusal to give a straight answer.
quantum and DHK will say straight out that faith is an operation of human nature and not a supernatural endowment of the Holy Spirit. Scandal won't. Scandal will try to bury the issue under an avalanch of irrelevant words and topics. Ask him about a 100-watt bulb, and he wants to talk about diodes and transistors. -
- Peace -
How can I make the question simpler?
Is faith an operation of the human nature? Yes or No. -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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1. Faith is an operation of human nature
2. Faith is endowed supernaturally by the Holy Spirit.
I would call this a false dichotomy, because you present them as if they are the only two available options. Yet, Scripture doesn't use either of those phrases. So, I'll answer with the third option thus revealing your hidden mistake and living up to my namesake. :)
3. "Faith comes by hearing..." The message is supernaturally produced, preserved and carried by the Holy Spirit to the whole world, and while some may "trade in this truth in for a lie" they will stand "without excuse."
So, since the message itself is supernaturally breathed by God, I really can't say that faith produced by it is "natural." Likewise, your use of the word "endowed" at least implies an irresistible component..."like heredity endowed me with a big nose"...so that option really doesn't work either.
BUT, even if faith was what you want to call a "natural operation" in response to a supernaturally produced message of the HS, that ability (being "good") would have been given to us BY GOD, right? So, that is why I asked about the "freakin difference?" Either way, all credit goes to God. -
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Logically, from the prima facia reading of the Scriptures, it would follow that faith is "unnatural," but my Noncalvinistic presuppositions forbid me to accept an irresistible work of the Holy Ghost, so I have to reject that premise. So the truth is, I can't say. Hey, whether it's of the flesh or of the Spirit, it's all of God, so what's the difference?That's like saying, I can't tell the difference between milk and urine, but hey, they're both from the cow, so what's the difference?
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