That doesn't surprise me in the least. Most Missionary Baptists (that is the split offs from the PBs) claim to be Calvinists. They espouse A.W. Pink in a huge way (or the ones I know do (as do I)).
Like I said in post #58, “It is their belief that “regeneration can remain inactive before it leads to repentance and faith” that gives the Primitives a bad rap.” Those who are unfamiliar with this concept of making a distinction between regeneration and conversion may have problems understanding this.
For All you Calvinists, and otherwise
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by preacher4truth, Dec 11, 2010.
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I do not agree with several of your definitions in the next post. I agree with foreknowledge, I believe the scriptures clearly show God knows who will believe before it actually takes place.
I believe your definition of predestination error. Predestination applies only to saved persons.
I agree with your very brief definition of election, however I believe God elected or chose to save those persons whom he knew by foreknowledge would believe.
I do not necessarily agree with your definition of regeneration. The term regeneration is used only twice in scripture and is much different than how a Calvinist defines it.
Faith is OK, Conversion does mean turning.
Adoption does not mean to be adopted in the sense we hold today. We think of a person being legally adopted into a family into which he did not belong today. In the scriptures adoption means "coming of age", when a person is given legal rights. Galations 4 explains.
Gal 4: 1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
When you trust Christ you are born of God. You are an actual son, you are not like a person who belongs to the Smith family by birth and is adopted by the Jones family. In scripture times a child was under tutors until they reached a particular age, at which point they could legally take possession of their inheritance, sign legal documents... This is what adoption in the scriptures speaks of.
I agree with your definition of perserverance.
I disagree with your definition of repentance. Repentance means to change one's mind, not turn from sin. If repentance means to turn from sin then God is a sinner, because the scriptures say God repented several times.
I basically agree with your other definitions. -
Unfortunately, like I’ve also already said, I don’t have the time to properly argue this point right now, but my opinion stands, and I’ll put you on my list should I get the chance to go into greater depth on this. ;) -
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You were asking about invitation and I offered scripture to show sincere invitation to all. FWIW, I simply offered the scripture. BTW, limited invitation/limited atonement is there big a difference? -
We must have sang at least eight or ten hymns, a cappella of course. Some years ago I served as an organ player for one church I attended, so I am partial toward instruments, but the singing was nice. Although I have always had a pretty good knowledge of the hymns Baptists sing, I don't recall seeing any of the hymns we sang Sunday morning in any other hymnal I have used. I did not linger after the service, I needed to get home, so I left.
Although I don't agree with the doctrine, I still count them as brothers and sisters in Christ. I feel the same way toward the Primitive Baptist here on the Baptist Board, and yes Dr. Bob, that includes you! :1_grouphug: -
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I expected a mature response. My bad.
Your Scripture references prove nothing.
No need to wonder. Your thin skin shined through on your initial response.
Wink Wink. -
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glfredrick:
BTW: I wanted to say Thank You for all those "definitions". Really do appreciate it. Currently I am actually reading a book by a "reformed" theologian. Kenneth Keathley. "Salvation and Sovereignty". I do realize, many of the "devoted" reformers probably do not put much "stake" in Dr. Keathley, but I am, for the moment enjoying the read. -
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Mercy, Peace and Love in abundance. -
Blessings -
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The definition of Hyper-Calvinism, classically speaking, has nothing to do with the order of the decrees. Hyper-Calvinism's sole defining characteristic, is downplaying evangelism because of election. One can be a Supra, or Infra, and a Hyper, or a Supra, or Infra, and a non-Hyper. -
Are you saying that "some elements of free will" means that the will is not completely free? That there are limits? Can those limits imply that regarding free will, God says "this far and no farther?"
Does this then follow to mean that God's sovereignty trumps man's will? If God can limit man's will, can he over-ride it completely?
Then, we still haven't even touched Acts 2:23, "Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain;"
One could make the argument that God's foreknowledge springs directly from his determinate counsel, not the other way around. I read from this verse that what God determines today he has determined from eternity. What I don't read from this verse is that God foreknows man's choices and reacts accordingly.
Yet, Peter described those who carried out God's determine counsel as wicked, thus held responsible.
I certainly don't have all the answers, but I can't see God's determinate counsel trumped by man's will. To argue that is to argue that God is at the mercy of man's will, and He can't do some things if man won't let him. -
I most definitely an convinced that God has created mankind with some degree of "free will". It is my view, that man must use that free will with regards to salvation. I think science (quantum physics and mechanics) has stumbled perhaps on the "wiggle room" that God has, by design forged into creation.
I do believer God is supreme and soveriegn over all, but I aslo believe that He intentionally created, particularly His moral creation with the ability to "choose" or not to "choose".
Quantum physics and mechanics has taught us during this past century, that things are not as "completely certain" as one might think, with respect to the atomic and sub-atomic realm. Personally, I see this as part of God's grand design to allow for freedom for his creation, albeit, within the established parameters He has set forth.
To me, mans ability to choose (free will) in no way takes away from God's Glory or Sovereignty, in fact, I think it highlights God's Greatness even more so.
So, even though you may disagree with me to the existence of "free will" or any degree of freedom, please understand and respect that I hold an "infinitely high" view of YHWH. -
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