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Featured For Wednesday Crucifixion Advocates....

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Calminian, Mar 21, 2019.

  1. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    This is the mistake of all Thurdayers and Wednesdayers. Cleopas included the crucifixion in the timeline, as did all the NT writers. Look at what he said and look at what he included in the timeline.

    Luke 24:20 The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; 21 but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place.​

    Sunday was the third day, not just since the burial, but since the handing over, the sentencing and the crucifixion. They are all included, and burial is not even mentioned. Case closed.

    Your'e stumbling on the term "heart of the earth" which does not mean burial. "Under the earth" was the term used for that. "Heart of the earth" is a phrase you should do some further study on.
     
  2. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Oh and I just caught this. Yep, this is another error of Thursdayers and Wednesdayers. You deny the clear teaching of the morning resurrection.

    John 20:1 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance.​

    The greek word for "early" there actually means morning.

    proi - in the morning, early, Mt. 16:3; 20:1; Mk. 15:1; Acts 28:23; the morning watch, which ushers in the dawn, Mk. 13:35 ˘ dawn; early; morning. (Mounce)

    Mark also makes is crystal clear Jesus rose on the morning of the first day of the week.

    Mark 16:9 Now when He rose early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven demons.​

    Biblically, morning starts at dawn, when the darkness first begins to transition to light. There is a portion of the morning when darkness still persists. Today, we call this twilight. The morning period starts at the morning twilight. The denial of a morning resurrection is motivated by trying to avoid a Friday crucifixion, but Scripture squashes this notion. Jesus rose the morning of the first day of the week.

    And it all makes perfect sense, because if Jesus was crucified Thursday, Cleopas would have said today, the 4th day is passing since these things.
     
    #22 Calminian, Jul 19, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
  3. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Did I not give this, already?

    Sunday just before sunrise - the resurrection - the day started at sundown on our Saturday.
    Saturday at sunrise - in the tomb - the second day and night. After sunset, the ladies would continue the preparation for the trek to the tomb at sunrise. Note: Jews forbidden to work on both the Passover and the High Sabbath (Saturday). The ladies had to wait until sunset Saturday evening to prepare to leave at sunrise for the tomb.
    Friday at sunrise - in the tomb - the first day and night (remember the Jews start their day at sundown the day before we start ours).
    Thursday - placed in the tomb just before sunset because the full preparation for burial was not completed obliging the ladies to return on Sunday morning as the sun rose to finish.
    I am getting the impression you do not read with understanding, but assume one is in disagreement when there is none.

    This is not uncommon, I do the same thing at times. I still (as I can) speed read, but am finding that my comprehension level is declining as well as coordination and length of concentration.

    :)
     
  4. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Yes, but the mistake is understanding when the day portion of the day/night cycle starts. You are right that the day night starts at sundown, as that's when the twilight of the evening starts. But the morning actually starts before sunrise, as the twilight starts before sunrise. Morning starts about 45 minutes before sunrise, while the darkness transitions to light. The twilight of the morning actually ends at sunrise, while the twilight of the evening starts at sundown.

    Generally Wednesdayers and Thursdayers believe Jesus rose during the night prior to Sunday morning, which contradicts Scripture.
     
  5. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    First, there is nothing that you have posted that I have disagreement with EXCEPT the "Fridayers" make the mistakes, not the Thursday folks.

    Wednesday just doesn't get a chance because it muddles the whole week festival activities and the slaying of the lamb day.

    So, for any readers, here, again is the timeline should you have missed it in any post I made.

    Sunday was the third day. Began at 6:00 (Jerusalem time) at sundown on our SATURDAY!
    Which then leaves 6:00 at sundown our FRIDAY to be the second day.
    Which leaves 6:00 at sundown our THURSDAY to be the first day.

    Crucified on OUR (gentile 21st century clock reckoning) THURSDAY starting at 9:00, death at 3:00, burial slightly before sundown (6:00) because they didn't have time to finish the burial anointment typically done because of the need to get home before the Passover.
    For the reader:
    The Jews start the new day at sundown, not at sunrise. So the lamb was slain on the afternoon of the night the Passover was eaten. The lamb was slain on Thursday, the Passover eaten on OUR Thursday night, the Jews Friday night. Basically they switch night and day when the daylight is actually over, while we sneak our new day change while folks are asleep in the middle of the night. :)

    I wonder if it is because we desire to hide in the night to party? hmmmm
     
  6. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    No problem.

    If you look at what I wrote, I also indicated the difference between dawn and sunrise.

    The Christ rose on Sunday morning, PRIOR to the ladies arriving. The ladies dcould not leave before there was enough light not to stumble around, nor before the soldiers had already left in terror.

    Therefore, the resurrection had to occur at dawn on the first day of the week, just as the Scriptures indicate, and the ladies arriving near or just after sunrise.

    The exact time as far as the hour and minute is totally up to speculation. I personally think that the sky was still dark enough that the resurrection light frightened the soldiers terribly. Such light would not have been as scary had the sun already made the sky and surroundings bright.

    What an amazing sight that would have been. The stone moving on its own, the brilliance of the transfigured body coming out, the terror of those soldiers, their screams caught in their throat ...

    The Scriptures indicate such when it says, "...Knowing the terror of the Lord,..."

    My mind can run to all imaginings as I consider the resurrection.
     
  7. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    You're ignoring the day night cycle, which is what I was trying to explain to you (I realize this can be difficult at first, and can be frustrating.). Jesus spoke of 3 days and 3 nights. That should at least getting you thinking about the proper understanding of the term "day." Check out in Genesis the definition of day given by God himself. "God called the light “day....” This will give you insight into Jewish thinking. This is how they understood the term.

    When the NT writers used the word day, they were thinking of the light portion of the day, which we sometimes call daytime. 3 days would be 3 consecutive daytimes. 3 nights would be 3 consecutive nighttimes. Scripture does not just say Jesus rose the first day of the week, but the morning daytime of the first day of the week. That is the third day, daytime Saturday the second, daytime Friday the first. Thursday daytime is impossible.
     
  8. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    Okay, then I see you differ from those who hold your view. What you don't realize is, if Christ rose in the morning, then Friday is the only possible crucifixion day. There's no other option. This is why so many vehemently deny the morning resurrection.
     
  9. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Scripture says what it says all we have to do is believe it. It does not say what day of the week He was hung on the cross or placed in the tomb. It tells us He was taken down before sunset. and rose again on the first day of the week. The Bible says He was in the grave three days and nights. I have no doubts of God's word. It seems we have had this discussion many times. The Catholics are who said it was friday and they were wrong. We don't know that He arose at the break of day. We only know He was in the grave three days and nights.

    The reason some cannot understand this is because we do not think like Jews. did at that time
    MB
     
  10. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    LOL! To paraphrase: "It doesn't matter it doesn't matter it doesn't matter, and it certainly wasn't Friday!" I think you need to work on that one.

    And you're wrong, it was Friday....
     
  11. rstrats

    rstrats Member
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    Deleted.
     
    #31 rstrats, Oct 22, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
  12. rstrats

    rstrats Member
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    Calminian,
    re: "...it is the third day since all this took place."

    If the 1st day of the week was the 3rd day since all this took place, what would the first day since all this took place have been?
     
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    What year on a calendar?
    Mark 14:12, ". . . the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, . . . ." which was before that evening Jesus and His disciple eat the Passover (Mark 14:17). Jesus was crucified that same following day. Jewish days begin with an evening.
    Exodus identifies the date on the Jewish calendar of the day of Mark 14:12, Exodus 12:18, ". . . In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, . . ."

    Here is a tool that can be used to figure this out:
    Calendar Converter
     
  14. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    The incarceration of Jesus happened Thursday night (beginning of Friday from the Jewish perspective). It actually works out perfectly after that. Exactly 3 nights, exactly 3 days. Jesus was in the heart of the earth/belly of the whale from the moment he went into custody to the moment he walked out of his tomb in the twilight of the morning on Sunday.

    The interesting thing, too, about this is, the events have to start after sundown for the 3 days and 3 nights to be fulfilled. If the events start before sundown, you have an extra daylight period that doesn't' fit anywhere.
     
    #34 Calminian, Oct 22, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    It did not happen as you suppose. Mark 14:17 would be our Wednesday evening, the 15th on the Jewish calendar. Mark 14:12; Exodus 12:18 being the 14th on the Jewish calendar. The Julian date April 5th, 30 AD.
     
  16. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    This is all irrelevant. Luke records that Sunday (the first day of the week) was the 3rd day from all the events of the crucifixion. If Sunday is the third day, and Wednesday is the crucifixion day, then that means Jesus was taken into custody Tuesday night. That's 5 days and nights in the heart of the earth and 5 days since the crucifixion.
     
    #36 Calminian, Oct 22, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
  17. Calminian

    Calminian Well-Known Member
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    No it does not. It says he was in the "heart of the earth."
     
  18. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Mat_12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
    This was before His crucifixion..afterwards ;
    Mat_27:60 And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.
    Mar_6:29 And when his disciples heard of it, they came and took up his corpse, and laid it in a tomb.

    Grave, earth, tomb, all the same thing a place for the dead. Christ was placed in a tomb..
    Yet His Spirit was in the heart of the Earth. He went there to set the captives free.
    MB
     
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    If Mark 14:12 was a Wedensday, Mark 14:17 would be Wedensday evening. That following day, Jesus being crucified, would be a Thursday. Mark 15:42 would be Thursday evening, when Jesus' body was taken down and placed in that tomb.
     
  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The Scripture says at His ascension, Ephesians 4:8.
     
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