Four Profs Leaving SWBTS

It certainly is. That’s why they didn’t practice hypocrisy.

Apparently you’ve been misled or made a false assumption.

The four professors that left Southwestern to begin the B.H. Carroll Theological Institute signed the 2000 BF&M and were in good standing at Southwestern.

 

Southwestern is better off without them. Paige will bring in some real scholars.

 

Southwestern is better off without them. Paige will bring in some real scholars. </font>[/QUOTE]Hmm...

I see you are still excessively hostile to those who don't do things exactly the way you do them. It seems you have been desperately looking for a way to discredit them, and failing that, you made a desperate and uninformed swipe at their level of scholarship.

How very sad for you.

 

Southwestern is better off without them. Paige will bring in some real scholars. </font>[/QUOTE]And who might those be?

 

Southwestern is better off without them. Paige will bring in some real scholars. </font>[/QUOTE]I generally find that it is the people who use terms like "Pope Patterson" who make the most absurb and unsubstantiated claims in "discussion" such as this.

But that statement is drivel. Spivey and Corley specfically are both top notch.

Their leaving is not the end of the world by any means. (Nor was McBeth's, Dominy's, Briscoe's, Johnson's etc.) And they're by no means "heros" for making up their mind about the PP admin. before finishing a single semester under his leadership. (If, indeed, that is what precipitated their departure.) But to imply that they somehow aren't good or "real" scholars for leaving is just foolish.

 

The plans for the BH Carroll Institute began in 1994 – long before Paige Patterson came to Fort Worth. The strategy and funding for this launch began in earnest about 3 years ago.

 

How scholarly can these guys be? They are quitting the largest seminary to join some refugee camp. When you mention Dilday, that is all you need to know about the school.

 

Quite scholarly - especially Corley and Spivey. (Moore is a musician and is very skilled and experienced in the musical arts.)

Believe it or not, being the largest does not mean that it is the best.

Who said it was a "refugee camp"? (Oh, wait, you mischaracterized it that way in a recent fit of ignorant condemnation.)

It is not a "refugee camp" but rather, a new theological institute.

Yep. A man of character, courage and Christian conviction has joined the project and has not requested a paycheck.

 

I have never seen a large school that didn't start small.

Largest does not always mean best.

From my experience the best theology professors have already left SWBTS. Dr, Lorin Cranford was the professor who most of the Ph. D. students took for Greek and NT studies. When a student finished Greek with him they were way ahead of any other programs anywhere else. I saw students come into class and be behind from the start who had one to three years of Greek elsewhere. In class we did ome work from the LXX and other literature outside of the NT. I took him for James in the Greek. He required us to idnetify the form and function of clauses and parse every word in James. Then we had to compare James with other passages and other literature. His students consistently won the Greek award. Dr. Cramford tests on the top ten percent of material. So if you only know 90 percent you will fail the test. His tests are one hour long and you will not even come close to finishing if you do not know the material well.
Sometime take a look at what he is teaching undergraduates at http://cranfordville.com/GWUclass.htm

Excellent teachers have no interest in politics. They want to teach, not play politician.

 

I have never seen a large school that didn't start small.

Largest does not always mean best.

From my experience the best theology professors have already left SWBTS. Dr, Lorin Cranford was the professor who most of the Ph. D. students took for Greek and NT studies. When a student finished Greek with him they were way ahead of any other programs anywhere else. I saw students come into class and be behind from the start who had one to three years of Greek elsewhere. In class we did ome work from the LXX and other literature outside of the NT. I took him for James in the Greek. He required us to idnetify the form and function of clauses and parse every word in James. Then we had to compare James with other passages and other literature. His students consistently won the Greek award. Dr. Cramford tests on the top ten percent of material. So if you only know 90 percent you will fail the test. His tests are one hour long and you will not even come close to finishing if you do not know the material well.
Sometime take a look at what he is teaching undergraduates at http://cranfordville.com/GWUclass.htm

Excellent teachers have no interest in politics. They want to teach, not play politician. </font>[/QUOTE]He's at Gardner-Webb here in North Carolina now? Well... I can't say anything, one way or the other, about his teaching. However, Gardner-Webb is known as one of the finest liberal/moderate/mainstream training grounds in the state. In fact, the GWU website even refers to the Divinity School as being mainstream Baptist. However, none of this has anything to do with the current topic of discussion in this thread.

 

People, don't confuse acedemic skills with scholarliness. If they were real scholars, they wouldn't be apostates, errgg, moderates.

 

I see. As always, you know better than everyone else – even those of us who have known some of these people for nearly a decade.

By the way, you've misspelled "academic".

Ah, yes. The customary blanket condemnation based on your usual faulty reasoning and malice.

Don’t let facts, reality or the teachings of Jesus get in the way of your false assumptions.

And don’t worry about grieving the Spirit or falsely maligning people, because they probably have some faults and God is almost exclusively a God of judgment, not grace.

You seem to be a very unhappy person.

 

BB, I would prefer to deal with the professors and not reply to your personal attacks on me. I would not call you clueless for being a moderate, so please stop with the personal attacks. Please don't drag this down into your own personal vendetta against those who are in favor of Christians running the convention.

I can believe whatever I want, just as you can, in regards to the theological soundness of other people.

These profs are worthless to have around if they are so sympathetic to the moderates.

 

Then start “dealing” with them honestly instead of making false allegations!

It’s a public rebuke of the very public false statements you have made.

I don’t think anyone has called you “clueless”, just willingly ignorant and grievously wrong.

If you don’t speak malicious untruth, I won’t have to rebuke you again.

Sir, you are the one who has “dragged this down” with your false accusations!

We were talking about the new BH Carroll Institute until you started making false charges against members of my church family. I would be a person of little character and backbone unless I attempted to speak the truth about others in the face of false allegations.

Demeaning another person with false charges may be a sign of “true religion” where you come from, but last time I checked, bearing false witness against another person violates the clear teaching of scripture.

That’s classic. You criticize me for making “personal attacks” and yet you can’t even finish a paragraph without falsely alleging that those who do not fully support everything that goes on in the SBC are somehow not Christians or want non-Christians in charge.

Physician, heal thyself!

Yep. Everyone has the right to their opinion. But when you express a faulty opinion or make false statements and allegations about others, don’t be surprised if you get challenged.

If I were to make malicious and untrue statements about your family, I’m sure you would respond passionately and rebuke the untruth and the apparent motivation for the false attack. So, why do you pretend to be the innocent party when I challenge your baseless and false allegations against members of my church family?

I’m not surprised that they are “worthless” to you, but they are worth quite a bit to the Kingdom of God.

Remember, the Old Testament prophets and Jesus Himself had quite a bit of difficulty with the religious establishment.

 

I have never seen a large school that didn't start small.

Largest does not always mean best.

From my experience the best theology professors have already left SWBTS. Dr, Lorin Cranford was the professor who most of the Ph. D. students took for Greek and NT studies. When a student finished Greek with him they were way ahead of any other programs anywhere else. I saw students come into class and be behind from the start who had one to three years of Greek elsewhere. In class we did ome work from the LXX and other literature outside of the NT. I took him for James in the Greek. He required us to idnetify the form and function of clauses and parse every word in James. Then we had to compare James with other passages and other literature. His students consistently won the Greek award. Dr. Cramford tests on the top ten percent of material. So if you only know 90 percent you will fail the test. His tests are one hour long and you will not even come close to finishing if you do not know the material well.
Sometime take a look at what he is teaching undergraduates at http://cranfordville.com/GWUclass.htm

Excellent teachers have no interest in politics. They want to teach, not play politician. </font>[/QUOTE]He's at Gardner-Webb here in North Carolina now? Well... I can't say anything, one way or the other, about his teaching. However, Gardner-Webb is known as one of the finest liberal/moderate/mainstream training grounds in the state. In fact, the GWU website even refers to the Divinity School as being mainstream Baptist. However, none of this has anything to do with the current topic of discussion in this thread. </font>[/QUOTE]My point was that Daniel David mentioned, "How scholarly can these guys be? They are quitting the largest seminary to join some refugee camp. When you mention Dilday, that is all you need to know about the school." I responded to his accusation by mentioning that the scholars have already left SWBTS. Dr. Lorin Cranford is most likely the best NT studies professor the SBC has and he left SWBTS because of all the politics and lack of scholarship presently. If you ever take him for NT studies you will be one of the best prepared of anyone. He is a very fine pastor and scholar.