to EricB:
I apologize. I was under the impression that the forum we were both posting in was part of the Baptists Only forum. I take back what I said.
But my question about what you believe on the Triunity of God stands.
You may answer at your own leisure, or ignore it.
Gal 2:20
Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Chris Temple, May 21, 2002.
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pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
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pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
EricB:
Well, I think the man who says he believes in the doctrine of election and feels nothing for those whom God had left to their condemnation has a profession of faith as questionable as one who says because he is saved by grace and eternally saved he can go ahead and live and dress and walk and talk any way he wants to.
With regards to the Triunity of God, I thank you for clarifying your side. -
When it comes to 'work' the trick is trying to define the word. What is works? If one says that faith itself is work, then one going against scripture. According to scripture, faith is a gift of God, not works. If one says that what we do as a result of our faith is works, then once again one going against scripture. Faith is a result of a gift, therefore any result of that faith would be a gift too.
The problem comes when we start judging the hearts of others, instead of allowing their hearts to show themselves. :eek:
By our fruits we are known. Anyone who denies this, denies the words of Jesus Christ our Lord. -
My fate does not rest in that, but yes, only in God's hand and His Word. -
tyndale1946...if you have any more interaction with TUOR, it will be helpful to know that he is a "two-point" calvinist...a real queer duck. He holds only to Total Depravity and Unconditional Election, he says, while denying the remainder of TULIP. Hence, TU-OR, as opposed to "TULIPer"...me, and a few others. Get it?
connieman -
Not in a very loving mood tonight are you connie?
By the way, the screen name is a character from JRR Tolkien's writings.
[ May 25, 2002, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: Tuor ] -
I don't know any Calvinist who believes biblical faith is a work. In the Arminian position, as I stated, faith is a work because it must be exercised in order to receive something. If you hand me a present, and I reach out for it, I have worked (extended effort) in order to receive it. If however, the very work involved is the work of God and not of myself, the cloak of saving faith is wrapped around me by God himself and I do not "put it on", then I have not worked to receive the gift. Scripture is clear that even our faith is not our own, but a gift from God. -
pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
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In the Arminian position, as I stated, faith is a work because it must be exercised in order to receive something.Click to expand...
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Originally posted by pinoybaptist:
Aki said:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> i am sure it is out of His pleasure, will and sovereignty, but if that is the only answer i'd say it will not satisfyClick to expand...
He would not take God when He says He "..doeth according to His will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth, and none can stay His hand, or say unto Him, what doest thou ?...".
He must know why. God must satisfy him and not the other way around.
</font>[/QUOTE]the question was clear as to what do Calvinists say regarding God's choice of the elect, rather than a question that attacks God's decisions. also, in context of the phrase "...it will not satisfy...", it means those answers from Calvinists. thus, no problem lies in those questions.
Originally posted by pinoybaptist:
The complete text reads:
quote:
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The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to
us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance....
2nd Peter 3:9
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My advice, Aki, is read the entire book of Peter 1 and 2, and remember to stay within context.
Click to expand...
God did not create anyone so He could damn one and redeem the otherClick to expand...Thru that sin of Adam, as the corporate head of the earthly human race, he brought condemnation on everybody else. All are under the sentence of sin.Click to expand...God, motivated only by mercy, and acting in accordance with His own sovereignty, chose to save many from these condemned creatures and promised to Adam the coming of His promised deliverance in His own time.Click to expand... -
pinoybaptist Active MemberSite SupporterOriginally posted by Aki:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by pinoybaptist:
[qb]Aki said:
the question was clear as to what do Calvinists say regarding God's choice of the elect, rather than a question that attacks God's decisions. also, in context of the phrase "...it will not satisfy...", it means those answers from Calvinists. thus, no problem lies in those questions.
Well, then, ask Calvinists here, because I am not a Calvinist, strictly speaking.
I am sure many of them will say what Paul said:
"Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect ? It is God that justifieth."
Translation: why scorn us and accuse us of saying God favored us more than others, God chose to do so, we did not ask for that favor.
if the word "all" in 2nd Peter 3:9 refers only to all the elect, it would mean that it is possible for some of those all to perish. except of course if qualified that this can never happen due to the next phrase which reads: "...all should come to repentance...", which then, is questionable of going around a passage to justify a stand. or, does the perish in this verse refer to anything other than 2nd death?Click to expand...
God did not create anyone so He could damn one and redeem the otherClick to expand...Thru that sin of Adam, as the corporate head of the earthly human race, he brought condemnation on everybody else. All are under the sentence of sin.Click to expand...God, motivated only by mercy, and acting in accordance with His own sovereignty, chose to save many from these condemned creatures and promised to Adam the coming of His promised deliverance in His own time.Click to expand...Click to expand...</font>Click to expand...Click to expand... -
if the word "all" in 2nd Peter 3:9 refers only to all the elect, it would mean that it is possible for some of those all to perish. except of course if qualified that this can never happen due to the next phrase which reads: "...all should come to repentance...", which then, is questionable of going around a passage to justify a stand. or, does the perish in this verse refer to anything other than 2nd death?Click to expand...
God, before time began, elected a group of people throughout history to bring to salvation. All the elect will be saved, but they will be saved because God will bring every single one of them to repentance and faith.
If Christ came early, before God had brought all of the elect to repentance and faith, then those of the elect who had not yet come to repentance would die in their sins--they would die as "children of wrath." The elect are "children of wrath" just like everyone else up to the point that God brings them to Him. -
Originally posted by swaimj:
I'll take it on faith that you are correctly presenting the Arminian position;Click to expand...not certain as to what they would say as I am not Arminian. At any rate, the quote above is incorrect because faith is the act of receiving salvation, not a work exercised in order to receive salvation. This is the position which Machen explains. His position is in contrast not only to the Arminian position you have stated but is also in contrast to many Calvinists who hold that faith must be a gift precisely because it is a work.Click to expand...
No matter how you cut it, faith is a work, it's either ours, or God's. ;) -
Let's get either back on subject, or moderators, please close this thread :rolleyes:
No one has yet been able to answer if all people in hell can claim Gal 2:20 to be true for themselves. :D -
pinoybaptist Active MemberSite SupporterOriginally posted by Chris Temple:
Let's get either back on subject, or moderators, please close this thread :rolleyes:
No one has yet been able to answer if all people in hell can claim Gal 2:20 to be true for themselves. :DClick to expand...
The very proof that they have not been crucified with Christ and live the life they live by the faith of the Son of God is that they are burning in hell.
No.
No one for whom Christ shed His blood will ever be in hell.
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