Matt Black,
You’re right. I’ve misunderstood you. Sorry about that. Now that you’ve explained a little further, I don’t think I’m following you. As in any discussion, terminology comes up along the way that needs to be defined. For instance, I don’t know what you mean by “the Fall” as an “historical event”. I think also we’d have to talk about what we believe “the Fall” is before we could continue.
Genesis 1-2 - a perfect paradise?
Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by 4study, Aug 1, 2003.
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Artimaeus,
I think preconceived ideas get in the way. It all depends upon your definition of “sin” is and what you believe about “the Fall”.
My point about “short of the glory of God” is that Adam is completely dependent upon God, regardless of "The Fall".
Are angels dependent upon God? -
Matt Black Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
My take is a bit different. I agree with you that all, including the pre-Fall Adam and Eve referred to in Gen 1-3, were/ are in need of Jesus ab initio and that the Fall, rather than being some kind of event at a fixed point in human history, is a picture of the state of all of us - we all, at some point in our development, become aware of right and wrong and inevitably choose to do wrong - we sin. We need to be redeemed from this sin, hence the need for a Redeemer. More than that though, although we are created in the image of God, we are lesser tha Him and , as you say, dependent on Him and in need of a Mediator (Jesus), sin or no sin.
Does that help or hinder??? :eek:
Yours in Christ
Matt -
Matt Black,
Yes, that helps me understand your view.
I believe the Fall is in the context of a covenant. So "sin" doesn't regard human morals or virtue, rather, it has to do with Adam's error under his responsibilities to the covenant.
What we've discussed so far regarding Adam's need for a mediator regardless of sin actually has two aspects to it. One with reference to the nature of Creator vs. creature (i.e Adam is created "short of the glory of God") and one with reference to covenant. In covenant relationship, there is also the necessity for a mediator. I believe Adam was created in a covenant relationship with God and thus was dependent upon Christ from the beginning.
I also believe the Fall is not metaphorical but did occur.
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