Is that from someone in this forum? :confused:
Ken
Give Me liberty, Or Give Me Justice.
Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by ForumChaplain, Aug 31, 2002.
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Chappie,
I sent you a private message this morning in response to that post. Have you read it? -
So let me save you a few keystrokes, my interests are to study with you, believe what i choose to believe based on my understanding of scripture and rebutt the rest. Are you ready for that type of study??
So you want scriptures do you? Well even Satan can quote scriptures. Yet the very logic that you cast out the window is necessary in order to gleen what God is teaching us in scripture. You ought to try it some time. Logic, start to finish..
You talk about luck, please. Consider the one lucky enough to be chosen by God if you want to consider luck. Consider the one unlucky enough to be chosen... Such illogical conclusions by you... You want to talk about luck. Consider the one lucky enough to be born the son of a preacher, but unlucky enough not to be chosen...
I know that you do not know how God chose, itsa mystery. Yet perhaps you can give me an illustration where someone actually chose without criteria. Just one. We won't hold God to it... Either he chose based on criteria, or he just randomly pointed his finger. Perhaps a roll of the heavenly dice...
One simple request, show me how it is possible to chose and remain faithful to the deffinition of the word.
A merited salvation. you must be kidding me. I make no such claims. Now who refuses to learn, now whose is fabricating.
Did you get that, not whosoever is chosen; whosoever believeth. (Look up the word, "whosoever) And if you must be chosen to believe, then God is in the business of misleading people.
Post the scripture, tell me how to intrepret it to illustrate election. Can you do that. Like i said, anygbody can post scriptures, but do they understand what they have read. Now you need that logic stuff....
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Actually, those in heaven receive what is called mercy.
Ken
[ September 20, 2002, 08:21 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ] -
Ken Hamilton,
' . . . those in Heaven got favoritism.'
At best this is a distorted philosophy of what God does with humankind. The Bible, in fact, corrects this fractured view. Read Romans 2:11 and Deuteronomy. One from the O.T. and one from the New; as if one verse should not stop the error.
N.T. 'For there is no respect of persons with God.'
O.T. 'For the Lord you God is God of gods . . . . mighty, and terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor take reward.'
I guess these are two more verses which people ignore; but if accepted would put to death the view of Unconditional Election. -
That's a good one, Brother Ray. What non-Calvinists have been unable to do for 2000 years, you think you can do with just two verses without the context taken into account.
Ken
[ September 20, 2002, 09:01 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ] -
You do understand that I disagree that God shows favoritism. God shows mercy to whom He shows mercy, not favoritism.
Ken -
Brother Ray,
Actually, it is the Arminian/non-Calvinist system that has God showing favoritism. It has God saving one person because the system says that person has done something(belief, baptism, whatever) to merit being saved, as opposed to another person who has not done something, based on natural human ability, based on something native to the person whom the Bible describes as being spiritually dead. It is the Arminian/non-Calvinist system that has man marching up to the throne of God and demanding entry into heaven because he did such-and-such and God is obligated to save him based on human merit. You can rail against the conclusion all you want, but such a conclusion is inescapable in the Arminian/non-Calvinist system.
I believe the Bible teaches salvation is 100% the work of God , not 50% God and 50% man, not 80% God and 20% man, or not even 99.9% God and .1% man.
Man, straightening out theological error wears me out.
Ken :cool:
[ September 20, 2002, 09:15 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ] -
Actually, those in heaven receive what is called mercy.
Ken</font>[/QUOTE]That certaintly was nice of him... I wonder what the ones that he did not die for think of him, does he even care? Who created the rest of us. Where is our messiah, who will die for us. If God did not want the rest of us, why did he create us. (Overproduction) For those that have more children than they can take care of here on this earth, we do not just destroy the children. {Perhaps we should, you say God did. is not our struggle to be more Christlike. But alas, We have wellfare. Is hellfare the answer to God's over population.
I thought that God was abundant in mercy, did he run out? Was his mercy too good to give to those that he condemned, watch out; respect of persons..
I know that you may consider my response sarcastic, but it is not intended as such. It's intent is to magnify the shortcomings of calvinism.. -
No offense taken. When the facts go against someone, they often use absurd reasoning.
Frankly, however, I fail to see why you adhere to a position that so clearly makes God out to be a respector of persons through human ability as the Arminian/non-Calvinist system does.
Ken -
Chappie,
You got your points across.
I too doubt that the Triune Godhead has run short of His Divine love, grace and mercy for all people if they will return to Him. [John 5:40]
Who is unwilling to come in this verse? God or human being?
I wish Dr. Pink could have tried to exegete this verse; he probably would jump to another one that appears to confirm his belief. -
God is not a respecter of persons by convincing some to receive Christ while others ignore His claims. You do remember, don't you, that there is a struggle between good and evil, God and the Devil. Whoever the human being listens to and finds the most compelling wins the soul. After all, we have a proclivity when we are sinners to believe the Evil One because our Adamic nature has twisted our thinking and desires. :cool:
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Ken, if God chose, he used criteria or he used the wrong word. Is that so hard to understand or to figure out. Instead of trying to distort the deffinition of the word, why not find and use the right word?
If God chose you, he used criteria in order to do so. or did he use a system of, say; every millionith person born belongs to me. Nope, that encampasses criteria.
He chose all the firstborn of Israel as his own. Is there criteria there? Let's see. Would all the first born please step forward. Oops!!! not everyone steped forward. Perhaps there is a difference between the first born and the second born....
Did he chose everyone that would that believes in him, Nope; criteria. Every ugly one, nope. If there is absolutely no difference, how does God know who he chose??
God is no respecter of persons, yet he makes no such claims concerning criteria....
Believe, faith, love, humility, charity, mercy, God loves that stuff... -
Brother Ray,
Just to make sure, you have not fallen for the lie that God has a vote, the devil has a vote, and you cast the deciding vote, have you?
Remember, the devil is not equal in power to God.
Ken -
Brother Chappie,
God has not revealed a criteria for whom He has regenerated. Why do you assume there must be some? Doesn't God, the Creator, have the right to choose simply because He chose, without having to answer to you or any other created being?
Ken -
No one is willing unless he is given new life by God first, enabled by God.
Here are a couple of verses that Arminian commentators must gnash their teeth at.
(John 6:44 NKJV) "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
(John 6:65 NKJV) And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."
Ken -
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Have you researched this? How do you know he didn't exegete that verse and you are simply not aware of it?
Ken -
Once you get past that, then you will have to biblically define "respector of persons". You will have to realize that God has established criteria for salvation that does not make him a respector of persons... -
(Deuteronomy 7:7-8 NKJV) "The LORD did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples; {8} "but because the LORD loves you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore to your fathers, the LORD has brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you from the house of bondage, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Ken
[ September 20, 2002, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]
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