God and free will

[atpollard]

Pharaoh hardened his own heart first. Secondly If he was already totally depraved incapable of doing anything good in God's sight then by what utter stupidity would it be necessary to harden his heart?

Its like putting a blind fold on a dead man. Please use your God given common sense.

I can understand why you are changing the subject ... to avoid answering the issue that challenges your overly simplistic statement in an earlier post.

However, what have I done that you should become personally abusive?
I think our conversation has become unprofitable, so ...

Another topic and another day.
Bye.

 

[MB]

We have limited free will, as our sin natures will not desire us to serve or please the Lord!

The Bible does not say that. Only fools say that, like in Romans 3: 11-20. The same fool says there is no God. Do you believe there is no God? Of course not. So why do you believe anything the fool has said?
MB

 

[utilyan]

Explain HELL to me as an outpouring of God's love?
Explain JOB as an outpouring of God's love?

That's easy. Love is there and one absolutely hates it. This is why hell is a separation from God.

 

[utilyan]

Explain JOB as an outpouring of God's love?

The challenged issued by the Devil is God has to manipulate JOB for JOB to stay loyal. I see it God is teaching evil a lesson, he doesn't have to buy job or forcibly manipulate Job. Teaching evil to be good, thats what good people call treasure. Its not based on selfish desires.

Under Calvinism Satan wins the challenge, God has to manipulate.

Of course JOB is loyal look at all the stuff and well off he is, Oh God has to manipulate him like a puppet to be loyal? Thats a bonus win for Satan. The entire point of the exchange.

 

[MB]

Are you familiar with the "Forth Article of the Remonstrance" concerning Prevenient Grace?

I believe in a will unleashed from sin by God so we can do exactly what He wants us to do!

...and I LOVE your enthusiasm!

Remonstrance is not in scripture Neither is Prevenient in a dictionary. These are man made bull they don't even lie up with scripture.Grace is still Grace as simple as it gets.
MB

 

[AustinC]

Remonstrance is not in scripture Neither is Prevenient in a dictionary. These are man made bull they don't even lie up with scripture.Grace is still Grace as simple as it gets.
MB

Neither is indulgence's, purgatory or papal bull (talk about bull...).

 

[utilyan]

I can understand why you are changing the subject ... to avoid answering the issue that challenges your overly simplistic statement in an earlier post.

However, what have I done that you should become personally abusive?
I think our conversation has become unprofitable, so ...

Another topic and another day.
Bye.

God hardened his heart as a Disciplinary PUNISHMENT. It wasn't a random whim. Also God frequently hardens hearts passively.

You go try to be a happy Christian in some oppressive country you will harden their heart, all the sudden they might want you dead for no evil act on your part.

If God hardens its not evil. A person can repent. A person ate your sandwich, your heart can be hardened to the point you actually want to kill them, and that realization can lead to a repentance.

Without any conflict with pharaoh God can snap his finger, oh look we are all in the promise land, or even we are all in heaven.
He can settle even all of us right now straight to heaven.

But he doesn't why? Evil person train of thought.......well he has to show off, he loves watching folks grovel and tremble in terror. Is there any possibility of a good motivation? based on the motivation of who God is. It can't be a education or a training, or a communication of a point God is trying to make to you?

Ever sat down and contemplate why am I not in heaven right now? There is a type of attitude oh well when I am in heaven THEN I'll be satisfied with God, THEN i can talk to him, THEN I can believe he's got it all covered, THEN I can be with JOY that Jesus Christ is RISEN.

How about we live satisfied with GOD right now? How about we cheer in joy of Jesus Christ right now? How about we actually trust God right now?

Faith in God may involve actually having faith in God. SAYING it is sweet, but saying it and losing your cool, we gotta come clean with the truth and improve where we want to.

You still running that race. You ought to speak like your already done and crossed the finish line, Thats why I laugh when you folks say once saved always saved, one can't even fake the part right.

If you don't have that peace its obvious, You can't hide this kind of thing, who am I kidding?

And then after the the whole world and universe says God doesn't want you to have that peace.

Who should I trust? If ten thousand people tell me God hates me. I know the Devil, how much do you think its going to take to break me?

 

[MB]

We have limited free will, as our sin natures will not desire us to serve or please the Lord!

Where does scripture say we have to serve or please? It says we have to believe.
MB

 

[Titus Tarnum]

You still running that race. You ought to speak like your already done and crossed the finish line, Thats why I laugh when you folks say once saved always saved, one can't even fake the part right.

Utilyan I have always liked your passion! You try to relate scripture to living life and I think we should all do that! It seems you can't have freewill and eternal security, but I feel like I have freewill I think I am eternally secure. I think I have freewill because I don't know what I will do next, and I am always on guard against the next temptation when I might sin or win; if I am eternally secure I find myself questioning that doctrine a lot.
Eternal security is an unnatural thought for me (probably most people) and it took listening to both sides of the coin and study to come to my firm convictions. You can't have your doctrine challenged at church like we all challenge each other and sometimes we take it personal because after you spend the brain power to discern the doctrine you you end up being emotionally invested in it. I try to recognize that and realize that everyone here is probably spending their time here to share what they perceive the truth is out of love for God, the Word and possibly each other. With that said I think you all are wrong! Hehe, just joking[emoji3]

I don't know what I will do next but doctrine tells me that God does; that's an unnatural thought to me that I wouldn't have known without the Word.
Then when I think that God knew every soul that would come from the first Adam before He made him I am amassed. I didn't know if I would have a family but God did and planned accordingly. The fact that I can't change who would be born because of me amazes me and is unnatural to me. We were all children of the first Adam and creations of God and the fact that our creator suffered so that we could be adopted into the body of the second Adam amazes me!
If I were to adopt someone else's kid I wouldn't have a clue about whether it would work out or not , but I know God knows and has planned accordingly.
Doctrine doesn't always makes sense to our human side because it's describing the way God thinks and not how we think, so I trust what I understand to be true through the Word that I am eternally secure even though I don't feel like it sometimes.


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[Titus Tarnum]

I meant amazed not amassed,oops


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[Brightfame52]

Ok so Jesus Christ does not have free will, right?

Hes not on the same level as sinful man, its blasphemy for you to equate Him with on a level of a born sinner.

 

[Brightfame52]

LOL I don't for a minute believe that you even know what free will really is. If there is no freewill why would God ask us to come to Him?
Mat_11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Rest is not given to the wicked.
MB

Christ said nothing about man having a freewill here. You wasting time friend.

 

[MB]

Christ said nothing about man having a freewill here. You wasting time friend.

An invitation is not a demand. The Lord would not have had to say come unto me if we mindlessly responded like a blasted robot. Calvinist are unable to explain sufficiently just how they are saved because they don't ask they just assume they are saved because they go to church and read the Bible. There simply is no Salvation with out believing in Christ first. Just about every one of them believe they are elected to Salvation. They take what is written to the Jew and apply it to them selves. They believe they are sheep before they believe. That God saves them with out faith and gives them faith afterwards. You all believe in your own nonsense.
MB

 

[MB]

Paul did not tell the Jailer that he had to be a sheep first or that He had to be elect. The Jailer asked what he must do to be saved and Paul responded with " Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ".

Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Paul must have lied HUH? How is it that Calvinism is more right than the Bible? Calvinist are so wrong it's pitifull. You try to change the gospel limmiting God on what and how He does things. Please don't tell me I don't understand. It's Calvinist that hasn't got a clue.
MB

 

[AustinC]

An invitation is not a demand. The Lord would not have had to say come unto me if we mindlessly responded like a blasted robot. Calvinist are unable to explain sufficiently just how they are saved because they don't ask they just assume they are saved because they go to church and read the Bible. There simply is no Salvation with out believing in Christ first. Just about every one of them believe they are elected to Salvation. They take what is written to the Jew and apply it to them selves. They believe they are sheep before they believe. That God saves them with out faith and gives them faith afterwards. You all believe in your own nonsense.
MB

Jesus sheep hear his voice. Those who are not his sheep do not hear his voice. Your robot scheme is a figment of your imagination.

 

[MB]

Jesus sheep hear his voice. Those who are not his sheep do not hear his voice. Your robot scheme is a figment of your imagination.

Really have you heard His voice? When and how did you hear His voice. The sane do not hear voices.
MB

 

[AustinC]

Really have you heard His voice? When and how did you hear His voice. The sane do not hear voices.
MB

And there you show your colors. You deny the supernatural and fall upon rationalism.

What did John tell us in the first chapter of his gospel?

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
~ John 1:1

So...yes...I have heard His voice. His word has immersed deeply into my being.

His sheep hear His voice.

To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
~ John 10:3

 

[Brightfame52]

LOL I don't for a minute believe that you even know what free will really is. If there is no freewill why would God ask us to come to Him?
Mat_11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Rest is not given to the wicked.
MB

Christ said nothing about man having a freewill here. You wasting time friend.

An invitation is not a demand. The Lord would not have had to say come unto me if we mindlessly responded like a blasted robot. Calvinist are unable to explain sufficiently just how they are saved because they don't ask they just assume they are saved because they go to church and read the Bible. There simply is no Salvation with out believing in Christ first. Just about every one of them believe they are elected to Salvation. They take what is written to the Jew and apply it to them selves. They believe they are sheep before they believe. That God saves them with out faith and gives them faith afterwards. You all believe in your own nonsense.
MB

I dont see how this post has any relevance whatsoever, mans will isn't free, no scripture says it is.

 

[MB]

Hearing voices?
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

The Bible does not say that. Only fools say that, like in Romans 3: 11-20. The same fool says there is no God. Do you believe there is no God? Of course not. So why do you believe anything the fool has said?
MB

So Paul and Isaiah were fools then, as they claimed none seek after God on their own?