Featured God uses means

Spiritually dead.
The state of being immersed, dead, in sin and trespasses.

that was our condition before being quickened by God.
To the Ephesians Paul wrote, and by application, to all saints after his time:

Ephesians 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; KJV

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, (NIV)

And to you did he give life, when you were dead through your wrongdoing and sins, (Bible in Basic English)
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins.... English Standard Version.


Here is Ephesians 2:1 all the way to verse 5 for an understanding of the context:

1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ,


Being dead in sin and trespasses made us incapable of understanding, or (HELLO, ICON, ARE YOU LISTENING ?) even mildly interested in the word of God, or the things concerning God.

You say, "we know he wasn't saved".
Where did it say that in Acts 8 ?
On the contrary, when Philip says, "IF thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest" the eunuch affirmed his belief.

He was a regenerate child of God who needed instruction on who Jesus Christ is to him.
The preachers say he is "unsaved", the seminaries say he is "unsaved", many read "unsaved" in the Bible which is not there.

 

Everyone ? who is everyone ? you ?

Nothing wrong with my lack of comprehension.
Have you checked yours lately ?

yeah. persecution was applied to the believers. it doesn't mean it was a means to get anyone ETERNALLY REDEEMED and ETERNALLY SAVED.
Hello ?
Can you spell comprehension ?

signs always gets anyone's attention. the Jews were fond of signs, weren't they ?
it still doesn't detract that the sign was FOR THE APOSTLES.
Hello ?
Can you spell comprehension ?

the gifts did not bleed. Christ did. the gifts did not rise from the dead, Christ did. the gifts do not have an elect from the foundation of the world, Christ did.
did the lame walking again guarantee his eternal salvation ?
Christ does.
did the blind seeing again guarantee his eternal salvation ?
Christ does.

the blind was healed here in time, not in eternity.
the lame walked again here in time, not in eternity.
need I say more ?
Oh, I forgot, you can't spell comprehension.

okay.

okay, again.
except the balance of scripture is being offset by misunderstood verses.

wow. Jesus Christ must really be impressed.

yeah, right, sez the one questioning the ability of the Holy Spirit to regenerate His own without any human agency.

Okay.

who's telling you to disobey ?

sign gifts confirmed the authority of the apostles as given by Christ. It did not become a means to redeem anyone.

this is where I said you are an Arminian, but, I've always suspected most Calvinists were really Arminians, anyway.

Did Agrippa even know what "Christian" meant as taught by Paul among brethren ?

so, you're saying they're damned ?

still doesn't prove God used preaching to save (eternally) even those you call "unbelievers".

 

This is the mistake that most Calvinists and some others make. Your definition is wrong and that leads to a wrong theology. "Dead" does not mean lifeless as in a corpse. That is not the definition that it has in the Bible.
Death means separation.

1. There is physical death.
[FONT=&quot]James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.[/FONT]
--When the spirit is separated from the body, it is dead. Death is separation.

2. There is spiritual separation.
[FONT=&quot]Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;[/FONT]
--Those that are separated from God are dead. They are not lifeless in that they cannot hear the Word of God. They are separated and have no spiritual life.
Adam died spiritually in the day that he ate of the fruit. He was separated from God spiritually. Yet he still heard God speak to him. He had lost his fellowship with and it wasn't restored until God sacrificed an animal for them .

3. There is eternal death. Rev.20:10-15
Death and hell shall be thrown into the lake of fire and they shall be tormented day and night forever and ever.
They shall be separated from God for all eternity. Believe me! They will live on for all eternity in a state of death, that is being separated from God.
Death is separation.

Therefore, in Eph.2:1 "those that are dead in sin" need to be reconciled to God in order to have life.
We are the means of that reconciliation:
[FONT=&quot]2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.[/FONT]

Where does it say he was? Philip was directed by God to the Eunuch because he had need of being saved; had need of Christ. It plainly says:

[FONT=&quot]Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.[/FONT]
--If he was saved there would be no need to preach unto him Jesus.

He did the same that Paul did on the road to Damascus. He confessed or called on the name of the Lord. He didn't need a vision. He had the Word. He had Philip's explanation of the Word. God uses men. That is what the Great Commission is all about.

You are the only one that says he is a regenerate child of God. You have no authority to say so. You stand on your imagination and not the Word of God here. God directed Philip to the Eunuch because he had no idea of regeneration or salvation or how to understand the Word of God. He did not have any relationship with Christ at all.

 

which one is dead ? the body ? or the spirit ?

Did he die spiritually as a result of his being separated from God spiritually, or did he simply lost his fellowship with God. kindly make up your mind.

yes, I believe you.
and thank you for all your discourses on dead and death.
it still doesn't change the primary meaning of being dead in sins and trespasses.

uh, that's not what I read.
What I read was, "you hath he quickened who were dead.....".
it didn't say, "you hath need to be reconciled, who were dead.....

No. We are not the means of that reconciliation.
We are the bearers of the good news of an already done reconciliation. One that was effected with or without us in the picture.

Paul was referring to himself, and Barnabas.
He was called to be God's ambassador to His people.

Really ? so you don't need to preach Jesus to one who professes to be saved already ?

You sure about that ? Did you really read the part where it says "behold , a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship. He was an Ethiopian Jew who was fully aware of a Being called Yahweh whom he had come to worship. He just had no knowledge of who it was being spoken of in Isaiah 53. Once explained to him, the light that was already in him, was made manifest through the gospel, as in 2 Timothy 1:9-10.

To duplicate or complete what Christ did ? To TEACH and PREACH the gospel to all nations where those He redeemed are scattered, yes. But if the great commission is to eternally save from the fires of hell those whom they preach to, didn't Christ already do that ?

and on the other hand, you are authorized to say who are the children of the devil or those who are unsaved ?

and you don't ?

agreed. he was to be pointed to Christ.

you mean unacquainted. all God's elect children have a relationship with Christ. He is their brother, God, Savior, Lord, whether they know it or not.

 

No you don't. you only think you do.

no it is not. it is scriptural.

I believe you. You're one of them, from the beginning.

my unchurched friend has a clearer understanding of what God, in Christ, did for His people than you can even hope to have.

You're a pathological liar. I never said God does not use means at all times. I questioned the assumptions that God uses means to regenerate His people, or to save them eternally.
dude, do you really need to twist words and misrepresent what I've been saying ?
are you really gonna sink to that low level ?

another indication of your total ignorance of Primitive Baptists. We have missions in the Philippines, India, and Africa, dude.
But these are missions to point Christ to His people as THE Savior to whom they owe their hope in heaven, THE victorious Savior by whom their tombs being as empty as His is guaranteed.
These are NOT missions to duplicate what Christ has ALREADY done.

again, get the facts of this discussions straight in your head, dude.

The man with one talent was a sinner ? I thought he was a servant.

Lies again. You NEVER had dealings with PB's is the truth. If you did, you'd know better than to accuse us of the things you accuse us.

Never said it was.

oh, so now you want me to bawl and get into a fight with the admins ?
they want to kill it, it's their right.
whether they killed it because of me, that's on their consciences, not mine.

Big fat lie. never denied God uses sheep to reach other sheep. I denied God uses sheep to reach GOATS, big difference.
Get your facts straight, dude.

We didn't snatch that out of thin air, dude.
you sure you know your Bible ?
here it is:
JUDE 1:1 - Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, [and] called:

I welcome all Scriptures. What I do not welcome is the twisting of these scriptures to prove a doctrine nowhere stated or hinted to by the scriptures quoted, such as you have done many times.

Never said we alone have truth either, that, again, is your lying mouth.
We follow peace with all men, and holiness, too, before God and among ourselves.
you really know NOTHING about PB's.
your ignorance is evident.

oh, I see. so you deny that redemption is over and done ? and because we hold that redemption is done and Christ IS victorious and went to heaven to His Father by His blood, we have a carnal security ? man, you're as twisted as they come.

take it up with Jude, dude.

where did I say our personal conduct DOES NOT matter ?
dude, you really have no hope of winning this arguments, so you resort to lies and insinuations ?
have some dignity, boy.

again, point to where I said it does not matter how we live.
if you cannot, I say, again, YOU ARE A BALD-FACED LIAR, boy.

 

pinoybaptist

:sleep:

:sleep:

I do not have to win anything.Just exposing your error and watching your foul posting speaks for itself.:thumbs:

.

God uses means that you deny. The Spirit used Philip....you deny it....

26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.

27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,

28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.

29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

 

Do not confuse him with the facts:thumbs:

He likes his fantasy ideas that leave off human responsibility.:thumbs:

 

stating facts about a person, who has printed lies IN PRINT, ?
what, peace at any price ?
why don't you ask your friend here if his initial post and attitude towards us align with what you said about my reply to HIS post and quote.

 

once again, you are caught lying IN PRINT.
I have agreed that the gospel call includes repentance and that the regenerates who come under that call are responsible to answer that call to repentance.
Are regenerates not humans ?
is that the only way you hope to win this debate ?
with lies ?
you have lost, time and time again, point by point, and have been unable to prove by Scripture that the Holy Spirit uses means to regenerate His people.
you are the one fantasizing about the correctness of your side by lifting Scriptures totally out of context and insisting they mean what you are saying.
go fly a kite, boy.

 

Solidly written, DHK. There is not a single one of us that can speak toward the saved/unsaved, or regenerate/unregenerate status of any other person. We can relate that person's testimony, but the truth is their soul's status rests solely between them and the Lord.

"Unacquainted," "unregenerate," we're starting to play a semantics game here. The fact is the Ethiopian had no understanding of what he was reading. When Philip began teaching and preaching to him Jesus, I believe the Holy Spirit moved in the heart of the Ethiopian and brought him to a place of knowing the Lord.

According to your doctrine, pinoy, the Ethiopian already had Jesus in his heart...so why bother sending Philip to him? Why did the Spirit move Philip to his chariot, if he already was a "brother" to Jesus? Simple. Because he wasn't. It took the movement of the Spirit, along with the Word of God, to bring the Ethiopian to a place of salvation.

Rippon, I've been in the ministry for about 13 years or so now, and every time I've felt the urgency of the Spirit to preach the word, every time I've been given opportunity to preach, and the message contains words of salvation and of Jesus's death, burial, and resurrection (speaking as the Spirit gives utterance), then I pretty much automatically assume that there is someone within the congregation that needs to hear a message of salvation. I don't believe the Lord would send me a message about salvation to a congregation that was wholly saved. It would be like teaching 2-year-olds about tax reform...it would be useless to their walk because it would no longer apply to them. I know that's not a perfect analogy, but I hope it makes my point.

 

my foul posting, eh ? I am truly rotfl.:laugh:
you should be in politics, boy.
you have a knack for starting a ruckus, and then blaming somebody else for it.

means TO WHAT ?
Prove by Scripture (if you can without lifting them out of context, that is) that the Ethiopian was unregenerate when the Holy Spirit sent Philip to him. That the Spirit used Philip to explain the gospel to the Eunuch so He, the Spirit, can regenerate the eunuch.

THAT is what is being discussed here, boy.
THAT is what I denied and got your self-righteous, I-am-God's-assistant-in-saving-His-people all fired and riled up.
I DENY and DO NOT AGREE that God uses means to regenerate, quicken, get his people born from above.
Not a preacher, not tracts, not churches, not testimonies, not bibles, not exemplary living, not danger, nothing.
Somebody has a thirst for the gospel, listens to it, responds to it, and gets it about Christ, like the Ethiopian eunuch, because he already has been born from above.
Then you can teach him of his responsibilities: faith, repentance, obedience, baptism, brethren.
until then, anything you say will be at best tolerated, at worst, ignored.
But, hey, this offends you, I understand that.
It robs you of glory, and gives all to God.

 

JamesL was right......there is no difference.....probably Fullerite. Now its exposed so put him on "Ignore" and avoid the egregious commentary. God bless you for exposing it though. :godisgood:

 

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[PreachTony

No question about it:thumbs:

Yes..exactly:thumbs:

Yes...true again...very simple:thumbs:

Very true:thumbs:

 

yet DHK also had no authority to presume that the eunuch was unsaved, or did he ?

explain how this is playing semantics. "unacquainted" means not familiar with, not knowledgable about, unknown to someone or does not know someone personally.

regenerate pertains to spiritual rebirth.
I don't see semantics here.
but of course, you see what you want to see.

True. He said so himself.

No. He was regenerated, quickened, born from above, PRIOR to being made acquainted with the Lord. No semantics, see ?

By the same token, we might ask, well, why didn't God simply restore the world to what it was prior to Adam's fall ? Or, since the cross and the blood and the tomb are already empty, and those who should be redeemed have already been redeemed, why didn't God simply nuke the earth and bring down the new heavens and the new earth ?

Right. Now considering that (1) Jesus was the author of eternal redemption, (2) He is the only begotten Son of God, (3) it was His blood that was shed, (4) He was the One who rose from the dead, the question is what manner of salvation ? addendum: and oh, yes, everyone for whom He died was adopted into God's family, finally, in time, and is His brother. You were Jesus' brother even before you were born.