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Good Friday?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Zuno Yazh, Mar 19, 2018.

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  1. Zuno Yazh

    Zuno Yazh Member

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    In order to avoid quarrelling over the meanings of day and night during Passover, I suggest we fall in line with Christ's because who better than anyone else is undeniably qualified to tell us how to understand a day as it was understood during the years when he himself was living in Israel.

    John 11:9 . . Jesus answered: are there not twelve hours in the day? A man who walks by day will not stumble, for he sees by this world's light.

    This world's light is of course the sun as per Gen 1:14-18. So then, "day" is when the sun is up rather than when the sun is not up. In order to avoid confusion; I highly recommend letting Day be daytime and Night be nighttime; viz: the three days and three nights of Jonah 1:17, Matt 12:40, John 2:19-22 indicate three times when the sun was up, and three times when the sun was down.

    Days divided into twelve equal periods of sunlight were regulated by what's known as temporal hours; which vary in length in accordance with the time of year. There are times of the year at Jerusalem's latitude when this world's light consists of less than 12 normal hours of sun, and sometimes more; but when Jesus was here; the official number of hours was always twelve regardless.

    I don't exactly know why the Jews of that era divided their days into twelve equal periods of sunlight regardless of the seasons, but I suspect it was just a convenient way to operate the government and conduct civil affairs; including the Temple's activities (e.g. the daily morning and evening sacrifices)

    Anyway; the preponderance of evidence indicates that Christ's crucified dead body returned to life on the third day rather than after the third day was completely over and done with. In other words: his resurrection did not take place at night.

    Matt 17:22-23
    Mark 9:31
    Luke 9:22
    Luke 24:46
    Acts 10:40
    1Cor 15:4


    NOTE: Even little children know the difference between night and day; especially those afraid of the dark, and they know that night begins when the sun goes down and day begins with the sun comes up. When a supposed adult can't even understand things as elementary as those, then I have to seriously question their understanding of things that are beyond a child's ability to grasp.

    /
     
  2. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Jesus died as all the other Passover Lambs died, mid afternoon before the evening Passover meal. Thursday that year.
     
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  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Wednesday in 31 AD the only year that fits the astronomical data which the Jews used to determine the date of Passover.
     
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  4. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    The feast of the Preparation was what day ? Nissan 14, Tues, the night before His death?

    He died before Passover that began at sunset.
     
    #4 loDebar, Mar 20, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
  5. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    He died on the Preparation Day, Nisan 14, which fell on Wednesday in 31 AD. Check any Jewish calendar. :)

    The confusion lies in the fact that, according to our way of dating, Nisan 14 (April 25) includes both Wednesday (until sundown) and Thursday (after sundown, the first day of Passover).
     
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  6. Zuno Yazh

    Zuno Yazh Member

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    Matt 12:40 . . For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

    Any child able to do simple arithmetic on the fingers of one hand can instantly deduce that Good Friday doesn't fit Matt 12:40 because there just isn't enough nights between Friday and Sunday-- there's only two; Jesus' prediction calls for three.

    John 19:31 . . Now since it was preparation day, in order that the bodies might not remain on the cross on the sabbath-- for the sabbath day of that week was a solemn one --the Jews asked Pilate that their legs be broken and they be taken down.

    There are more sabbaths in the Bible besides the usual seventh day. For example:

    Yom Kippur (Lev 23:32)
    Feast of Trumpets (Lev 23:23-25)
    Feast of Unleavened Bread; a,k.a. Passover. (Ex 12:16, Lev 23:5-8)

    Passover sabbath is interesting. The usual sabbath always falls on the very same day of the week every time. But Passover sabbath floats; hence it can, and it does, occur on any given day of the week; sometimes even coincident with the usual sabbath; for example 2018, and sometimes consecutive with the usual sabbath; for example 2008.

    The solemn sabbath that John mentioned is the Passover sabbath. It was consecutive with the regular sabbath that year. As a result the Jews had to observe two sabbaths in a row.

    Weaving the solemn sabbath into the chronology of Matt 12:40 in order to obtain a third night is actually fairly easy once you're aware of it. But be forewarned; there are a number of Good Friday's defenders who refuse to allow the solemn sabbath to be other than the usual sabbath; and they've concocted some very convincing sophistry to support their view.

    /
     
  7. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    yes, I also noticed when I was converting to a Gregorian calendar for easier reference for me that there were correction of 10 days ,So that was not a good idea.
     
  8. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Passover is always Nissan 15th , It is a lunar calendar .1st full moon after vernal equinox, 1st day of Spring
     
  9. Zuno Yazh

    Zuno Yazh Member

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    Jesus ate his Passover dinner the night of his arrest. (Matt 26:17-20, Mark 14:12-17, and Luke 22:7-15)

    The Jews ate their Passover after Jesus was dead and buried. (John 13:1-2, John 18:28-29, John 19:13-14, and John 19:31)

    The Jews were somehow unaware that their religious calendar was tardy the year that Christ was crucified. He, being a prophet in direct contact with God, would of course have known the precise moment that Passover that year was supposed to begin; which is no doubt at least one of the reasons why Christ ate his own Passover before the Jews ate theirs.

    Ironically, the Jews were careful to avoid going after Jesus during Passover.

    Matt 26:3-5 . .Then the chief priests and the elders of the people assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas, and they plotted to arrest Jesus in some sly way and kill him. But not during the feast-- they said --or there may be a riot among the people.

    Due to their religious calendar's error, the Jews inadvertently crucified Jesus during the very season they wanted to avoid. Apparently it was God's wishes that His son be put to death smack dab on the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which the Jews wouldn't have done on time had their calendar been accurate.

    /
     
  10. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    He did not eat the Passover meal. He was dead by then , He are the Feast of Preparation with the Disciples. the night before.
    He was the Passover Lamb, as all the previous lambs had foretold.
     
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  11. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover.

    Lev 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

    The Passover would have begun at sunset on what we call Tuesday, which would have been the beginning of the 14th day of the first month Jewish and lasted until sunset on what we call Wednesday. At sunset the 15th day began.

    The Passover is the twenty four period of the 14th day.

    The Preparation Day they removed all the leaven from among them, The death of Christ began our being unleavened, the removal of our sin which is an ongoing thing see 1 John 1:7-9 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. f we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness., unto being made perfect.

    Thus the completeness of seven days on unleavened bread.

    IMHO.
     
    #11 percho, Mar 20, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
  12. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    I will let the date be between percho and TCassidy

    The Hebrews today celebrate 15th

    Pesach begins on:
     
  13. Zuno Yazh

    Zuno Yazh Member

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    If we reckon Sunday to be the third day as per Matt 12:40; then:

    Saturday would've been the second day, and Friday the first.

    Saturday night would've been the third night, Friday night the second, and Thursday night the first.

    The so-called last supper would've taken took place Wednesday night.

    Jesus' interview with Pilate would've taken place Thursday morning and he would've been executed that afternoon.

    /
     
  14. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Hebrew days start at sunset.
    Passover was Thursday at sunset. He was already dead , first night
    Friday Weekly Sabbath begins at sunset Second night.
    Saturday Third night
     
  15. Zuno Yazh

    Zuno Yazh Member

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    In order to avoid confusion over the meanings of day and night relative to Christ's crucifixion and resurrection, I highly recommend that you avoid thinking in terms of a 24-hour day.

    I suggest that you fall in line with Christ's definitions because who better than anyone else is qualified to tell us how to understand the beginning and the ending of a day as it was understood during the years when he himself was living in Israel.

    John 11:9 . . Jesus answered: are there not twelve hours in the day? A man who walks by day will not stumble, for he sees by this world's light.

    This world's light is of course the sun as per Gen 1:14-18. So then, "day" is when the sun is up rather than when the sun is not up; i.e. day is daytime and night is nighttime; viz: the three days and three nights of Matt 12:40 indicate three times when the sun was up, and three times when the sun was down; i.e. relative to Christ's crucifixion and resurrection: day begins with sunrise and night begins with sundown.


    NOTE: Days divided into twelve equal periods of sunlight were regulated by what's known as temporal hours; which vary in length in accordance with the time of year. There are times of the year at Jerusalem's latitude when this world's light consists of less than 12 normal hours of sun, and sometimes more; but when Jesus was here; the official number of hours was always twelve regardless.

    I don't exactly know why the Jews of that era divided their days into twelve equal periods of sunlight regardless of the seasons, but I suspect it was just a convenient way to operate the government and conduct civil affairs; including the Temple's activities (e.g. the daily morning and evening sacrifices)

    /
     
  16. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    The crucifixion was on the Preparation Day which fell on Wednesday, 14 Nisan, in 31 AD (the only year that fits, astronomically).

    His body was taken down as the sabbath (special High Sabbath - first day of passover) was approaching.

    He was in the tomb 3 days and 3 nights.

    He was gone when the ladies arrived before dawn on Sunday, the first day of the week.

    Now, just a bit of simple math.

    Sundown Wednesday to sundown Thursday - day 1 (Special Sabbath)

    Sundown Thursday to sundown Friday - day 2 (Ladies shopped for burial supplies)

    Sundown Friday to sundown Saturday - day 3 (weekly sabbath - ladies couldn't finish the burial process)

    He arose after sundown and was gone before sunup Sunday when the ladies arrived to complete the burial process.
     
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  17. Zuno Yazh

    Zuno Yazh Member

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    Had Christ risen from the dead prior to sunup, he would have risen from the dead at night. That won't work because the preponderance of evidence testifies that he arose on the third day rather than before it started.

    Matthew 17:22-23
    Mark 9:31
    Luke 9:22
    Luke 24:46
    Acts 10:40
    1 Corinthians 15:4

    /
     
  18. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Interesting that Galilean Jews differed from Judean Jews in counting the days (won't bore you with details) as they followed different rabbinical tradition.

    Even when in Jerusalem there were two days for killing the lamb and preparing the meal. Jesus' (all from Galilee except Judas) disciples killed it in the temple at 3 pm, then that night started Passover with the meal (Last Supper). Then arrest, trial and crucifixion. On the next day the Judean Jews would kill the lamb at 3 pm - which is exactly when the Lamb of God died and curtain torn in two. They needed to get the body in the grave before 6 pm and the start of the High Sabbath/first day of Passover by Judean Jew reckoning.

    Hence, Jesus observed the Passover (Galilean calendar) AND at the same time was buried already by Passover (Judean calendar)
     
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  19. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    The 3rd day started at sundown Saturday.
     
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  20. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Dr Bob,
    I have heard this and it seems to be an attempted explanation to have The Last Supper as Passover and then HE was also killed as the Passover Lamb. Or make Christianity a continuation of Judaism?

    We know all four Gospels mention the Preparation day and the Passover.

    Is this suggesting a local tradition that the Feast of Preparation became the Passover for Galileans?
     
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