Was our nation founded on the Judeo-Christian ethos of the west in the 18th century?
Yes.
Was it ever a Christian nation?
No.
I cannot judge a man's heart, but from what I have read I would doubt that the majority of our founding fathers were Christians.
Has the US ever been a Christian nation.
Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Bunyon, Oct 16, 2005.
Page 5 of 7
-
-
I'm off on a field trip to the Bush presidential librery. You take care, C4K. Nice talking with you today.
-
Always a pleasure. I am actually in Germany at the moment on a little holiday visiting my USAF bro-in-law.
We got "rained in" today so I had some computer time -
-
Joseph Botwinick -
Originally, this started out to be a Christian Nation. -
So you're saying that a true Christian would never have abided slavery? The fact is that Christians can be wrong, just like everybody else. -
God never outlawed slavery in either the OT or NT. The slavery issue is a straw man in this debate.
-
Originally, this started out to be a Christian Nation. </font>[/QUOTE]This had nothing to do with the United States. Now if we were to ask if the United Kindgom of Great Britain and Ireland was once a Christian nation we might include this particular quote. -
-
C4K,
This had nothing to do with the United States. Now if we were to ask if the United Kindgom of Great Britain and Ireland was once a Christian nation we might include this particular quote.
That is simply an incredible statement. The Mayflower Compact was not a statement of what they held in common with the England they left but what they had in common amongst themselves and the dreams they had for the new home and nation they were making. If anything speaks to our Founding as a nation it seems to me the compact between those who sought and made this country would be a clear record. -
So you're saying that a true Christian would never have abided slavery? The fact is that Christians can be wrong, just like everybody else. </font>[/QUOTE]1. You are correct. They were trying to unite this nation of Slave Owners. Somehow, uniting with the African American Slaves didn't seem to be that important to them. Say...didn't some of the founders actually own slaves themselves?
2. Your argument is that we were a Christian Nation that was founded on the principles of the Bible. I don't believe that buying and selling humans like cattle was Biblical. If we are a Christian nation, founded on Christian principles, then we would have taken a Christian stand and said no to slavery. Instead we were hypocrites who talked out both sides of our mouths about equality in order to unite with slave owners.
3. I didn't state, BTW, that there was nothing good about our founding...as I believe quite the opposite. I believe as far as governments go, it was the best thing on earth at the time and still is. It was not what I would call a Christian nation though as it did not and still does not follow the principles and teachings of the Bible. We are a secular Constitutional form of democracy. There is no Christian nation on earth as Christs' kingdom is not of this world.
Joseph Botwinick -
Joseph Botwinick -
-
It is not often I do this, but I agree with Joseph above.
The ownership of other humans based purely on their skin colour and the protection of that ownership is an indication that not only was our nation not Christian in its governing document, but is was not Christian in its behaviour. -
I won't argue that the writers of the constitution were all Christian. Some of them were deists, some were probably atheist. But the people that they led were by and large Christian. I won't even argue that they were good people cause many were not. But their faith was the Christian faith, and they honestly tried to walk in that faith. -
"Somehow, uniting with the African American Slaves didn't seem to be that important to them."
Well, Joseph I guess the efforts of no Nation on Earth prior to the 1800 can earn your respect then Joseph. It is a fine thing to sit and judge a group of people trying to make a Nation in the 16 and 17 hundreds while sitting here in a Nation that was achieved and bulit upon their efforts. How would you feel if someone picked out all of your faults and said you were a hypocrite and refused to recognize the good efforts you make toward living your faith? -
Racial enslavement has no defence I am afraid. I for one am grateful when a brother in Christ confronts me with my sin.
Christian at least implies Christ-likeness. Can anyone accept that Christ would support racial enslavement? -
Over my lifetime, I have seen good men who lived by Christian principles, but they sure wouldn't claim the Christian experience as the underlying cause of their behaviour. The same is true of a nation. It may apply Christian principles, but that doesn't make it "Christian".
The Bible may not condemn slavery as such, and even Paul admonishes one slave to make the most of his slavery. The Bible, from beginning to end, however, does demonstrate delivering God's people, from the bonds of slavery. Even our experience in Christ is freedom from the slavery of sin.
Cheers,
Jim -
I don't think anyone is condoneing slavery, their point is that it was once acceptable and to Judge the founders becasue they had to deal with a problem that was bequithed to them by the whole world is wrong. A case of someone with 21st century eyes judeging someone who lived in a whole nother world.
I keep saying if you floks are saying that Nations can't be christian as far a being born again or as far as having a personal relationship with God, or as a far as onec saveda always saved. We agree. I is a moot point. We are dealing with the term as it is commonly used. Not in the way you folks are defining it.
"Christian at least implies Christ-likeness. Can anyone accept that Christ would support racial enslavement?"-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No he woulden't. But the last time you sinned, you did not stop being a person who exercises Christian predilections did you? This one thing does not stop America from doing the same.
Page 5 of 7