Non-elect cannot choose anything but sin, right?
And the elect cannot choose anything but salvation at some point in their lives, correct?
My point is, do the elect, then, have a "nature" to choose God?
I mean, you claim that grace is irresistible, don't you?
Is Calvinism irresistible?
Wouldn't it follow that if God "forces" the elect to receive grace --- and He apparently does in order to overcome their nature to not choose -- that it is just as logical that it is "all of God" that they are Calvinists?
If there is truly a misperception of what folks of the reformed theology believe it most likely is due to the way it is communicated by them. While I agree with your position on mens choices as you have articluated it here it is in direct conflict with iresistable grace.
It does not contradict irresistible grace at all.
I think the problem is that you are only thinking in terms of, "Resistance is futile!
You will obey!"
In terms of Calvinism, it's more like, "That is so desirable, I can't resist!" In the former case, the person is forced to do something.
In the latter, the option is so appealing, the person does not WANT to resist.
Huh?
What are you talking about?
You had a problem with the way people communicated reformed theology, and I communicated "irresistible" to you in a way that you should understand.
Is this your way of saying you refuse to accept the fact that irresistible grace doesn't have to be force?
What's the problem?
Does it totally defeat your arguments, so now you have to resort to "scripture please?" Okay -- show me the scripture that says it MUST be force.
Or show me the scripture that says our will is free in the libertarian sense.
Good luck.
I view true doctrine as coming from scipture. If we are going to comminicate God to others this should not be a problem.
Wanting a view justified by scripture is not something one "resorts" to as a result of defeat in a debate. It is asking for a scriptual basis for your clarification of the subject.
Since scripture does not communicate this and neither have I I can say there is no scripture to support this.
I do not support Libertarian free will as I have expressed.
How?
Your opinion does not make it in direct conflict.
Did you want me to just say "ok, sorry about it being in direct conflict with irresistable grace."
Try showing me how my statement is in conflict...
Its your assertion, now show proof.
When you back yours up with scripture, I'll do mine.
If you're having trouble doing so, maybe that will help you understand why the request was inappropriate.
You have not.
Here is the statement to which I responded:
You want scripture for my response? Give scripture for your statement, first.
Then I'll respond with scripture and we can compare scripture to scripture.
Now, show from scripture, why his statement about choice is in direct conflict with irresisitible grace.
Then we can continue. If you refuse, then I rest my case.
this is the childish back and forth I do not want to be involved in. I suggest you look back through the thread. Outside of that it is apparent you have none. I am done with you on this thread.