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Featured How are believers "Drawn" to Christ?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Jun 27, 2023.

  1. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    My take. Probably works for all.

    Paul was going down the road to Damascus in unbelief.
    God the Father through Jesus the Son of God called Paul because he had predestined Paul according to his purpose and three days later Paul by being baptized with the Spirit of Truth went from unbelief unto belief, became of faith.

    And we -- we ought to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, beloved by the Lord, that God did choose you from the beginning to salvation, in [to] sanctification of the Spirit, and [to] belief of the truth,
     
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  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Here is the Actual Doctrine as supported in scripture:
    2 Thessalonians 2:13 clearly states believers are chosen. Lets stop and agree right there, God chooses believers, not those to be believers.
    For what purpose does God choose individuals according to 2 Thessalonians 2:13? For salvation, thus this phrase teaches the purpose of His election.
    How does God choose individuals according to 2 Thessalonians 2:13? By setting them apart in Christ, the sanctification by the Spirit.
    Why does God choose individuals for salvation? "through or on the basis of" faith in the truth! Thus a conditional election.
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Why in the world would I need to cite yet more evidence, when all you will do is post "taint so?"

    What does 2 Thessalonians 2:13 mean?
    As Paul reflects on what God did in the Thessalonians' lives, he gives thanks constantly. They are his spiritual brothers in whom God's love abides. He is thankful specifically that God chose them from the very first to grant them salvation.

    This divine choosing does not rule out human accountability. The gospel summons sinners to believe on Christ, which Paul's readers did (1 Thessalonians 1:4–6). However, the Holy Spirit fills a significant role in salvation by setting sinners apart for salvation. In response to the work of the Holy Spirit, the Thessalonians had put their trust in the truth, the message of salvation that Paul and his fellow missionaries had preached in Thessalonica. Salvation is entirely by grace, but no one is saved unless he accepts it by faith as a gift from God. Paul wrote in Ephesians 2:8–9: "for by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." And in Romans 6:23 Paul declared that eternal life is the gift of God "in Christ Jesus our Lord." ​


    Clarke's Commentary
    Verse 13. 14. God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation, &c.] In your calling, God has shown the purpose that he had formed from the beginning, to call the Gentiles to the same privileges with the Jews, not through circumcision, and the observance of the Mosaic law, but by faith in Christ Jesus but this simple way of salvation referred to the same end-holiness, without which no man, whether Jew or Gentile, can see the Lord.​
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Unbiblical nonsense. Read the book of Acts.

    Act 22:16
    ‘Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins by calling on His name.

    Thus Paul put his faith in Jesus, calling on His name!!..And then, after his spiritual conversion, he got up and was water baptized.​
     
    #44 Van, Jul 4, 2023
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2023
  5. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    You have to read a little closer. My question was not to give an example of a scholar that supported this view. I have already acknowledged the two major views supported by scholars.

    I ask you for a source for the statement that this view is the “majority view” and that only “Calvinists” hold the counter view.

    FTR, being the majority view doesn’t make something correct. There is about a billion Catholics in the world, far more than Baptists. There are more people that identify as Muslim than identify as Baptists.

    peace to you
     
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  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Did I say that being the mainstream view makes it correct? Nope - thus obfuscation
    Did this poster agree the view cited is the mainstream view? Nope - as predicted.
     
  7. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Did this poster produce evidence his view is the mainstream view? Nope—- as expected—-

    peace to you
     
  8. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    According to the pleasure of his will (Eph. 1:5)
     
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  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I have provided more than sufficient citations to demonstrate God chooses individuals for salvation through faith in the truth.

    Of the 50 plus English translations I reviewed, more than 30 had chosen for salvation, where as only 20 had chosen to be saved.

    Thus the mainstream view prevails in our English translations.

    And everyone who can read a Reverse Interlinear knows the Greek says for (eis) salvation (a noun) and not "to be saved" (a nonexistent verb).
     
  10. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    UNBIBLICAL nonsense you say.

    Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 1 Tim 1:13 Unbelief of what?

    Acts 9:20 and immediately in the synagogues he was preaching the Christ, that he is the Son of God.

    Where did that belief of truth come from?

    John 14:17
    the Spirit of truth, whom the world is not able to receive, because it doth not behold him, nor know him, and ye know him, because he doth remain with you, and shall be in you.
    John 15:26
    'And when the Comforter may come, whom I will send to you from the Father -- the Spirit of truth, who from the Father doth come forth, he will testify of me;
    John 16:13
    and when He may come -- the Spirit of truth -- He will guide you to all the truth, for He will not speak from Himself, but as many things as He will hear He will speak, and the coming things He will tell you;
    Acts 9:17,18
    And Ananias went away, and did enter into the house, and having put upon him his hands, said, 'Saul, brother, the Lord hath sent me -- Jesus who did appear to thee in the way in which thou wast coming -- that thou mayest see again, and mayest be filled with the Holy Spirit.' And immediately there fell from his eyes as it were scales, he saw again also presently, and having risen, was baptized, [Verb - Aorist Passive Indicative] is baptized. He is baptized having been filled with the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth and immediately preaches the Truth. He has become a believer by the Spirit of God.

    2 Thes 2:13 is fulfilled in him.

    IMHO BIBLICAL
     
  11. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    So, you are basing your statement that you hold the majority view on your personal research, not on a scholarly study of Biblical Greek experts or the Christian community as a whole.

    Please publish your findings in a respected journal for peer review. Perhaps real evidence to support the statement will be found.

    peace to you
     
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Apparently you do not know what you said that is unblblical nonsense.
    "Paul by being baptized with the Spirit of Truth went from unbelief unto belief, became of faith." ​

    Paul chose to "call on the name of the Lord," not the nonsense of "being baptized with the Spirit of Truth."
     
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    1) Did I say I hold the majority view or the mainstream view. Can you not bring yourself to post accurately?
    2) A taint so claim, devoid of merit. Only Calvinists concoct these rewrites of scripture, i.e. to be saved rather than for salvation.
    3) Yes I engage in "personal research" rather than accept the absurd claims of those who rewrite scripture according to their doctrine.
     
  14. Jesus Saves!

    Jesus Saves! Active Member

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    I did answer the question, after the Holy Spirit revealed to me that I was lost, I had several opportunities to be born again and turned the Lord away.
     
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I am not interested in obfuscation. Are the lost reproved by the spiritual things found in scripture? Just say yes or no.

    And do not add, "provided they were supernaturally enabled by irresistible grace." If they needed to be enabled just say no. :)
     
  16. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    LOL, all you can say is “taint so”

    peace to you
     
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  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    1) Did I say I hold the majority view or the mainstream view. Can you not bring yourself to post accurately?
    2) A taint so claim, devoid of merit. Only Calvinists concoct these rewrites of scripture, i.e. to be saved rather than for salvation.
    3) Yes I engage in "personal research" rather than accept the absurd claims of those who rewrite scripture according to their doctrine.
    4) Note the effort to offer fallacious arguments, such as personal incredulity, rather than admit 2 Thessalonians 2:13 clearly states we are chosen conditionally, based on "faith in the truth."
     
  18. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    It taint so a taint so claim!!! DUH!! LOL You are arguing with yourself about what you have posted in this thread.

    I have had enough. All done with this thread.

    Thanks for the conversation

    peace to you
     
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Here is the Actual Doctrine as supported in scripture:
    2 Thessalonians 2:13 clearly states believers are chosen. Lets stop and agree right there, God chooses believers, not those to be believers.
    For what purpose does God choose individuals according to 2 Thessalonians 2:13? For salvation, thus this phrase teaches the purpose of His election.
    How does God choose individuals according to 2 Thessalonians 2:13? By setting them apart in Christ, the sanctification by the Spirit.
    Why does God choose individuals for salvation? "through or on the basis of" faith in the truth! Thus a conditional election.
     
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    People are not drawn by "irresibible grace" but by our appreciation of God's lovingkindness such as dying for us while still sinners.

    Why? People are drawn by their appreciation of God's lovingkindness, Jeremiah 31:3
    By what means? People are drawn by their appreciation of God's lovingkindness. Romans 5:8
     
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