Mexdeaf.
I apologise. I'll wait until you have calmed down a bit.
john.
How Dare You....
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by ktn4eg, Mar 14, 2007.
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tinytim.
We live in society, we speak. We go to a foreign land and we are separated because we are telling them but we are not teaching them to stand for themselves. That's why I said it is like imperialism. Keep the coolies in their places.
It is the same here. Church is meant to be an all member ministery but all you find is the same people week after week leading and the rest sitting wondering how long the sermon's going to last.
Tell me what the point of going is. What does a missionary do that a native couldn't do?
john. -
seriously, are you really this unknowing about the state of foreign missions today? There are many national pastors in Africa! That doesn't mean that they don't need more churches started! Goodness.....that's like saying we ought to be done witnessing here in America! Everybody should be converted because we've worked here for a coupla centuries already.
Sometimes, just the fact that a person is willing to go all the way across the planet to bring them a message makes the nationals sit up and listen more.
However, your idea of what missionaries do today is really very disturbing. IMHO, you need to go on a missions trip and see for yourself what they do.......perhaps that family in France that you have mentioned.
If not them, Ive got several names you could choose from, a few of them are even in Africa. Try a missions trip to India......that'll really open your eyes. We support some national pastors in India, btw. -
(although I know God calls some men to be prolific church planters)
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Teaching children separately from the adults - thus being able to give them the message in their own "language" is just like feeding a child smaller cuts of meat. I do not hand my 4 year old a steak and expect her to not only cut it up but to eat it all - I cut her smaller pieces and give her quite a bit less - because that's all she can digest at a time. When I teach my kids about sin, I'm not teaching them about homosexuality or murder - I'm going to teach them about taking someone else's toy (stealing) or telling fibs (lying). What can they handle?
In church right now, we're going through Romans - we're ALMOST finished with chapter one. It's taken us 6 months to get through that first chapter - and much of it was pretty deep. I'm grateful to my little ones' teachers who taught them during that time so that they wouldn't have to be exposed to things that they just shouldn't know about just yet (at 4 and 6). That time will come - my teens (14 and 17) sit in church with us and get the deeper message. -
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God bless you.:thumbs: -
Hello all.
What has witnessing to do with seminaries? Why train up pastors, what is it, three years, to do what should be natural for us.
Isn't Christianity about spreading the word of God and that doesn't take college does it? Red China managed to increase the flock by 50 million without outside missionaries from seminaries on the whole.
I've been trying to reply for ages now but I've given up. I made some points and I might have mixed up the quotes.
Teach me.
Hello Mexdeaf.
tinytim has said For example we have some missionaries in Bolivia that run a Seminary. They are training natives to Pastor. That's what I'm saying. We need to teach and let them get on with it but why the seminary? Isn't Christianity about spreading the word of God and that doesn't take college does it?
This is a big problem I have. Education doesn't make good pastors God does.
john. -
I forgot about the kid thing. I will catch up (not tomatoe) tomorrow sorry.
john. -
pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
I am all for teaching children absolute values and Godly character, but it ought to be done God's way, and God's way is the home way, and what may sometimes look good and appealing to men is not exactly good and appealing to God, which is why he says "my ways are not your ways, neither are your thoughts my thoughts".
Sunday School, for example, is totally unscriptural. Here you grind out children who sing "Oh, How I Love Jesus", and "Jesus Loves Me This I Know", who do not really know the Lord, who have not been drawn to Christ, and do not really love Jesus. We have in effect pagans offering sacrifices of praise to the living God.
Let's bring our children to church, sitting with us in the pews, listening to God's word. Period. Let's bring them up in the word of God at home, train them in the values of the word at home, and train them that Sunday is church day, not beach day, or baseball day, or picnic day, or any other day, and the bond between parent, child, and God will grow tighter and firmer. -
pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
I had yet to hear of a missionary who lives in the hinterlands of Samar, where they may be in danger of communist raids, or of "lost command" assaults, lost commands are military renegades who have turned cattle rustlers, rapists, murderers, robbers.
I have not heard of missionaries who learned how to use a water buffalo for hauling his supplies from town uphill, or to sow a field of corn for his consumption, or went visiting folks on horseback, or ride on top of cabs pulled alongside by 120hp Honda or Kawasaki motorcycles.
They're mostly in town, where the educated folks are, where the churches are, where the rich folks are, where the conveniences are, and if there are some who do go to the far-flung barrios or those that you need to reach thru 6 or 8 mile uphill treks in communist or muslim or lost command territories, they mostly go there for a photoshoot with the poor folk in churches and the local, indigenous pastor, so they can send these photos back home to their supporters.
Sorry, but in some respects, I am with johnp on this one.
If the Lord will raise His man, He will raise His man from the local folks, He don't need to send the "white" man to educate the natives in His ways.
Oh, by the way, there may be one exception, just maybe - the Mormon missionary. -
2. Many times they start out in the bigger cities and train the folks in the bigger cities, who go out to the 'littler' cities, etc.
3. Do you really think God gives a toot that you think He messed up by calling the 'white man'? Maybe He oughta step down from His throne and let you run things.
Sometimes you gotta laugh to keep from crying......:BangHead: :tear: -
pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
You forget, you're speaking to a native. I've been all over the country, mexdef. You haven't.
ahhh...a point of agreement, if it doesn't offend your 'white manliness'.
:BangHead: :tear: -
Bro. James Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
How dare you...preach the Word.
To be sure, in many cases, "bringing them in" has become a three ring circus of rock music, pizza parties and basketball games and other attractions. Nominal, carnal Christianity is rampant.
Getting genuine training in the things of God in the home is wonderful--if one has a true Christian home. Multitudes do not.
God is still calling His sheep back to the fold--regardless of the right-ness of our methodology--not one has been lost--save Judas Iscariot.
Jesus walked, sometimes sailed, in reaching the lost. He spent a lot of time reaching publicans and sinners. His disciples were sent out, walking for sure--to the lost sheep of Israel, then to the Gentiles. So, now we have buses. Jesus left them with a charge: go, preach, baptize, TEACH. Surely, we have compartmentalized and boxed(canned) what this charge means. We do need to think outside the box and examine the scripturalness of our practices--and then practice Church Discipline. But then, this would seriously reduce the membership.
A real dilemma--for the flesh!!!
Preach the Word--everyday, everywhere. Reprove, rebuke, exhort--with all longsuffering and DOCTRINE.
Choose wisely,
Bro. James -
John of Japan Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I could go on for hours. But hey, I have to ge to bed so that tomorrow I can be the "colonial, mooching, intruding, unneeded" missionary pastor to the dear Japanese folk in my church tomorrow who Christ has saved through my witness. I would gladly "spend and be spent," as I have for 25 years, and die for the sake of my beloved Japanese.
Who would you die for? Anyone not a white person from your country? Your name (and mine) means "man sent from God." Who are you sent to? Anyone but white people? -
What presumption that all the thousands of BAPTIST missionaries are not called by God to go into missions.
When you get to Heaven, tell the apostle Paul that!
Or even try pulling that statement of with God.
Thus the dangers of Calvinism, folks.
Calvinism leads to this type of thinking.
I am glad my God sent His son into the world to share the Gospel with mankind.
I am glad for all the missionaries that listened to God instead of bad doctrine that says we don't need missionaries.
In this thread we have been told that missionaries are not from God, and now they are trying to convince us that children's ministries are not needed...
Yet churches are dying because of this type of teaching.
Old people die. When your church has no young people to replace them, your church will cease to exist. But that's OK right? I mean afterall, God must have predestined for churches to close their doors.
I am so glad that this type of thinking is in the minority among Bible Believing Baptists.
And that most of us wants to see people go to Heaven so much so that we support missions, and children's ministries.
But of course if you believe people the elect will get there with, or without someone sharing the Gospel with them, then that explains your lack of support for missions.
WOW... the things you see on BB. -
pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
Secondly, I don't think it is anyone's church but Christ's. And when we would like to see something we started go on forever, that is when we cease to depend on the Spirit of God, and start depending on gimmicks and programs, and all that other stuff, just to make sure the church grows, and is constantly populated, but really, is it our worry ?
So, tell us, tinytim, why are the seven churches gone ? where is the Jerusalem church ? Where did the Antioch church go ? These were all churches that began at the great Pentecost era, and why do we not ask where they are ?
Did they die out because of lack of young people ? Or lack of "God-called" missionaries ? Or just a general lack of enthusiasm for God ?
Was God surprised that these churches no longer exist ? Was it God's plan for His churches to exist forever on earth ? Remember the Scripture that says "He does what He will in the army of heaven and on earth".
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You cannot just use such a broad stroke to paint the picture of missions. Yes, some missionaries are in the larger cities but the larger cities have people who need to hear the gospel too. Not everyone is called to the back woods. We have a couple who just went to be missionaries in Bande Ache - where the tsunami hit. That's not going to be a cake walk either!
As for the children, yes, I teach my children at home - they have learned to love the Lord at early ages. There's NOTHING wrong with them singing praises to God - they are NOT little pagans offering sacrifices to God. Is it wrong that my babies all saw people raising their hands to the Lord and they did the same thing? Should I have taken their hands down and scolded them?? That's just disgusting IMO.
The Bible also doesn't speak of childcare - but that doesn't mean that having someone watch my child for an hour and a half so that I can be taught more about the Word of God. During that time, they also have "church" - for their own age group. My children stay with us through worship and then leave before the sermon - and I like it this way. I can concentrate for 45 minutes a week on the Word without interruption (not something I can say about my own quiet time), and they are not sitting someplace where someone is talking above their heads.
I just don't get the hostility with Sunday School that you guys have - do all of you have children? -
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