So you didn't even repent? You didn't change your life to one of obedience to Christ? If you did these things you did them because of your faith. But if you did not do these then one must wonder if you have faith at all?
Yes it must come after! If it does not come at all then you must question salvation.
I agree entirely with the first part of your statement but the bolded part. Ahhh now that is the problem! That is what the Catholic Church wanted to get away from. It is clear from your statement and a sad understanding of the teachings of Jesus that you believe whether or not you choose to obey Christ in love working through the Holy Spirit you are saved. It is clear the option not to obey is available to you that faith is only an intellectual assent to a truth but not a faith that leads to obedience. You clearly pointed out your position as long as you believe Jesus died for your sin you are free to sin willey nillley as often as you like because its your choice and your outcome assured. Fornicate? Sure! Adultery? Sure! Murder? Sure! Idolatry? Sure! Coveting? Sure! Its all permissable! Because you are saved you have a confidence that you will be saved because you believe Jesus died for your sins and now you don't have to do anything about your sins. You can freely choose to live in them and no requirement to abide in Christ! Its all a choice! Because you're saved!
That is what I have been preaching against and so has the Catholic Church.
What does this have to do with the rest of the conversation? Its another topic all together. First tell me what do you think your question means. What do you think propiation sacrifice re-enacted means? Do you hold that it means the original Sacrifice that Christ offered for men at Calvary or do you think it means re-sacrificing the Lord at each mass?
how does the RCC officially View the papacy?
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Yeshua1, Jul 25, 2012.
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
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I can walk with the Lord in security, knowing that salvation is totally based His death at the Cross, so forever secured by god in him!
Now freed up to obey God, and for success, need to rely upon the Holy Spirit in me now...
I know that my behaviour cannot sseperate me from the love of God in christ, that i am forever sealed in him, that frees me up to rest upon him, andto really serve without worrying if I will "lose it" by not working hard enough/long enough..
How about you, do you have that security promised us in the Bible? -
Catholics do not obey Jesus’ command not to call anyone ‘father.’ Catholics do not obey because they claim Jesus did not mean what he said that he was speaking in hyperbole.
I obey Jesus. I do not call my spiritual brothers ‘father.’
Nowhere in the Bible does it say we go through Mary to get to Jesus. It is Jesus we go through to go to the Father.
In addition, the Catholics pray to Mary for salvation. They also pray to Mary to help them with sin, etc. The Catholics pray to Mary about many things that we should only pray to Jesus for.
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In the RCC, saints such as peter and John can hear our prayers and intercede for us before the throne of God...
mary co matrix/co redemptress, so the RCC elevates her literally to being the "Mother" of God, as being like 4th member of holy God now!
They pray to her to inercede on their behalf, to grant the absolution and grace...
the former pope credited mary for saving his life from being shot...
mary is a Goddess to them! -
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
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As for the Catholics believing we have to obey, we do, except the Catholics do not obey what God says, they go against what He says, they also add to the scriptures, thus nullifying God’s word. -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
Most bible scholars admit Jesus was speaking in hyperbolic fashion in regards to that verse. -
If I do not sin with my eyes and my hands, why should I cut off other body parts? LOLOL
Hyperbole means not to mean what you say.
Jesus means what he says! -
Have you ever seen a Mormon defend the Book of Mormon when it is pointed out to him the verse that says that "Jesus was born in Jerusalem," and not in Bethlehem. He will defend it, justify it. The RCC does the same thing--justify blatant lies of unsaved men. Create a list. We will go through the man-made doctrines and see.
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Thinkingstuff Active MemberDHK said: ↑It is not me that just says so. It is a multitude of people who have left the RCC, and others who have studiously researched it.Click to expand...
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite SupporterThinkingstuff said: ↑Lets make something very clear. Very few people who left the RCC Actually left because of serious study. Most leave because of 1) poor understanding of their own faith to begin with 2) emotional reasons 3) and a sincere desire to serve God but haven't because of point # 1. Most people who leave the Catholic Church do so because they haven't seriously studied the faith. And there are a lot of Catholic Who were protestants who became Catholic because of serious study. Many of the Catholics who leave the faith weren't even good Catholics. They were secular in a lot of respects. A lot of protestants who become Catholic for 2 primary reasons. 1) serious study of the faith. Which is attested to by many people you can currently read. Tim Staples, Scott Hahn, Steven Ray, Francis Beckwith, and many more. And it isn' just recent either. and the other reason is 2) they married into the faith. This latter group I wonder about their faith.Click to expand...
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Thinkingstuff Active MemberThe Biblicist said: ↑That is precisely why most people leave the Baptist faith - they simply do not grasp the truth. For example, you do not grasp the truth that there is no such thing as a justified man by faith without works who is not also a regenerated man whose profession of faith is evidenced by good works (Eph. 2:8-10) without confusing justification with regeneration.Click to expand...
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Thinkingstuff Active MemberMoriah said: ↑What is that supposed to mean?Click to expand...
It is not anti Catholic rhetoric. I am teaching out of love for Jesus.Click to expand...
Catholics do not obey. They go against God and His Word. You can change that fact about your life easily, if you wantedClick to expand...
I have stopped sins.Click to expand...
My desire for sins has changed.Click to expand...
I have not cut out my eye or my hand. Why do I have to cut off my limbs if I stopped sinning with them? You do not understand…Click to expand...
If I do not sin with my eyes and my hands, why should I cut off other body parts? LOLOLClick to expand...
Jesus was NOT speaking in hyperbole.Click to expand...
Hyperbole means not to mean what you say.
Jesus means what he saysClick to expand...hy·per·bo·le (h-pûrb-l)
n.
A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a tonClick to expand... -
Thinkingstuff said: ↑Lets make something very clear. Very few people who left the RCC Actually left because of serious study. Most leave because of 1) poor understanding of their own faith to begin with 2) emotional reasons 3) and a sincere desire to serve God but haven't because of point # 1. Most people who leave the Catholic Church do so because they haven't seriously studied the faith. And there are a lot of Catholic Who were protestants who became Catholic because of serious study. Many of the Catholics who leave the faith weren't even good Catholics. They were secular in a lot of respects. A lot of protestants who become Catholic for 2 primary reasons. 1) serious study of the faith. Which is attested to by many people you can currently read. Tim Staples, Scott Hahn, Steven Ray, Francis Beckwith, and many more. And it isn' just recent either. and the other reason is 2) they married into the faith. This latter group I wonder about their faith.Click to expand...
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Thinkingstuff Active MemberYeshua1 said: ↑Would say the biggest reason people left the RCC was due to the Holy Spirit openning them up to be able to understand what the RCC teaches, as contrasted to the Bible! Chose to leave and go to a 'real church"...Click to expand...
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Thinkingstuff said: ↑Good at least you got that right!
Which it seems frees you up to be able to choose to live in sin without guilt because you have assurance.
No, it frees me up to live now for the Lord as he wants us too, as one who is serving Him out of love and thanksgiving, not as one who "has to" but "wants to!"
Assurance allows me to trust that He will always love and accept me, and that drives me to serve Him harder!Click to expand...
According to you not only are you freed up to obey but to freely disobey and live in sin whatever your preference is because you are assured. There is, according to you,no requirement to obey God. What a faith! This is why Catholics cannot accept your teaching. The whole purpose is to save us so that we can participate in the divine life of Christ and experience his grace. Not so we can choose to obey or sin based on our preferance.
Apostle Paul saw this exactle same way I do, and the Judaizers and others saw it as the RCC does!Click to expand...
God will always love all men even those in hell. Not that I'm suggesting you are going there but you theology has a bit of work. As does your interpretation of scripture. That verse encourages those who remain in Christ not those who do not remain.
God loves all people as being His creation, but hs reserved FULL LOVE to only those only in Covenant relationship with him, Christians!
Those saved by grace of God have both new natures and the Holy Spirit in them, BOTH desire to obey and walk as we should, up to us to avail ourselves of Him to empower us to live as we should!Click to expand...
Absolutely!!!!! I know I have a reward in heaven that rust cannot touch while I remain in Christ through out my life.Click to expand... -
Thinkingstuff said: ↑It is. Because its the same rhetoric always used against Catholics. You certainly love your version of Jesus. Do you love me? Do you love Catholic Apologists? Do you love Catholics who disagree with your interpretation of scripture? Or are you secretly praying that we go to hell just to find out you're right?Click to expand...
Thinkingstuff said: ↑I do understand. You say you still sin. You say you take it literally that Jesus wants you to avoid sin by cutting off that part of the body which causes the sin or commits that sin to prevent future sin with that body part. either you don't take him literally or you don't follow what he said.
But you still sin according to you. are you sayiing you no longer sin with your eyes or arms what about your brain? cut that out too.Click to expand...
Thinkingstuff said: ↑He absolutely does if you read most bible commentaries.
I think you need to go back to the dictionary.
hy•per•bo•le (h-pûrb-l)
n.
A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton
Jesus means what he said in both cases but he used an extreme to make his point. Just as a book doesn't actually weigh a ton neither does Jesus think you should cut off your arm but makes the point not to allow for temptation to sin in your life.Click to expand... -
Thinkingstuff Active MemberMoriah said: ↑What kind of spirit do you have that speaks to people in such a way?Click to expand...My parents died while being members of the Romans Catholic Church. We were traditional Catholics, as was all my ancestors.Click to expand...Why would I want them all to go to hell?Click to expand...
That is such an evil statement for you to make.Click to expand...
If you give up sins with your body parts,Click to expand...why would you cut them off?Click to expand...As long as we live, we have the chance to work out our salvation.Click to expand...If I am getting sin out of my life, and making progress, why in the world would I cut off a body part?Click to expand...
Jesus is explaining the importance of stopping sins.Click to expand...
Jesus always means what he says!Click to expand...
I explained what hyperbole means, then you came back on and said I was wrong, and then you give the same definition as I did.Click to expand...Hyperbole means not to mean what you say.Click to expand...A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a tonClick to expand...
I notice people here do that…they say I am wrong, and then say the same thing I do, while still denying the truth.Click to expand... -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite SupporterYeshua1 said: ↑Would say the biggest reason people left the RCC was due to the Holy Spirit openning them up to be able to understand what the RCC teaches, as contrasted to the Bible! Chose to leave and go to a 'real church"...Click to expand...
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