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Featured I challenge any evangelical to prove to me that Christians can be responsible for folks burning in h

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by kyredneck, Apr 21, 2020.

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  1. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    1 Corinthians 15:34 KJV
    [34] Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
     
    #41 Jordan Kurecki, Apr 22, 2020
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You accept full free will, I accept limited by sin nature one!
     
    #42 Yeshua1, Apr 22, 2020
  3. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Ok your not following what I am saying here. I know what you accept. But you also said those who go to hell made their own free choice. I am disputing that. The reason is that if, according to your theology, the lost has no choice but can only act according to there nature then it cannot be reasonably said that they freely chose to do so.

    If there is not more than one option, i.e. reject God or choose God, then they are forced to go to hell they did not freely choose to do so.
     
    #43 Revmitchell, Apr 22, 2020
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  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    They are doing what they desire to do is the truth, God is not forcing them to reject Christ!
     
    #44 Yeshua1, Apr 22, 2020
  5. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Which means nothing if they do not have a choice to choose Him.
     
    #45 Revmitchell, Apr 22, 2020
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    None of us after the Fall have enough free will for that!
     
    #46 Yeshua1, Apr 22, 2020
  7. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Brother, then you are not reformed.

    My understanding is and correct me if I am wrong - according to the reformed Christians there are two groups:

    [1] The elect, whom God calls and draws to him, who cannot say no nor resist his grace and are saved via no free will.

    [2] The majority of mankind, created in the womb as eternal reprobates and whom God created in hatred against them and are NEVER afforded salvation as God never calls them to BE saved. Ergo, again, no free will.

    Perhaps I am just parroting the hyper-reformed that I learned Calvinism from.
     
    #47 Scarlett O., Apr 22, 2020
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    That is indeed Hyper teaching form of Calvinisms,!
    My understanding is that all are spiritually dead in Adam, are sinners, and limited by our natures to always reject Lord Jesus.
    God from eternity past has chosen out for Himself a particular people, ones Jesus died and atoned for, and by grace we are then saved, and God allows the rest to stay as they desire in their sins!
     
    #48 Yeshua1, Apr 22, 2020
  9. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    You just said the same thing I said!

    You said God picked out a chosen few to save. And the rest go to hell with no opportunity to BE saved. Does God give the non-elect a chance to be saved or not?

    In your first post, you said he did and they "chose" to go to hell via a free will.

    Now you say God only offers salvation to the elect and he lets the rest go to hell.
     
    #49 Scarlett O., Apr 22, 2020
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  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    He does not force them to go to hell, they choose it for themselves!
     
    #50 Yeshua1, Apr 22, 2020
  11. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Well that is what you say but you cannot then say that the lost freely choose to go to hell. Without a choice it is not then freely.
     
    #51 Revmitchell, Apr 22, 2020
  12. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    I promise that I am not picking on you.

    How can they choose hell for themselves if there are never any options to choose from? It's like me going to a fancy restaurant and saying, "I'll #8, the filet mignon, .....when the menu is BLANK! The restaurant is serving NO food.

    Reformed = God created the majority of the world to be eternal sinners that He never planned on giving a chance to be saved.

    I don't think you are as reformed as you think you are.
     
    #52 Scarlett O., Apr 22, 2020
  13. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    #6. It's a mystery?
     
    #53 InTheLight, Apr 22, 2020
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  14. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    So...you don't know. That's not a mystery.
     
    #54 AustinC, Apr 23, 2020
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  15. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    We don't choose hell. Hell is the outcome of our rebellion against God.
    God ordains the life of each individual for a purpose that he knows and he does not tell us that purpose. God may create vessels of wrath (Romans 9) or vessels designed for righteousness. Being the Creator, He makes this choice. Who are you, o human, to talk back to God? Paul is crystal clear, but many wish to avoid Romans 9 because it reveals how little control they have and it bothers them.

    How it must grieve the King when we question His choices and prefer our own concept of righteousness so much that we question His choices.
     
    #55 AustinC, Apr 23, 2020
  16. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Uh not according to your theology.
     
    #56 Revmitchell, Apr 23, 2020
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    None who go to Hell were forced and caused to go there!
     
    #57 Yeshua1, Apr 23, 2020
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I do not hold to double predestination.....At least not the theology theist God determined the lost to be reprobates, as I see Him just choosing to bypass Grace towards them!
     
    #58 Yeshua1, Apr 23, 2020
  19. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    If they do not have a choice then yea they were
     
    #59 Revmitchell, Apr 23, 2020
  20. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Should God give anyone His redemptive grace, Scarlett?
    Would God be evil to have ordained the perpetuation of Adam's fallen offspring and cast us all away to damnation for the constant rebellion of all mankind against the Creator?
    Would you care to lodge a complaint against the Creator because He chose not to end humanities existence when He chose to let Adam and Eve continue to live on Earth and have children?
    If you think God has chosen unwisely, please lodge you complaint before the Almighty that we might read your complaint against Him.

    Is God unjust to ordain that humanity might populate the earth, even though they act in rebellion and it brings their judgment of eternal damnation?

    Speak your complaint.
     
    #60 AustinC, Apr 23, 2020
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