Not sure that assessment is correct.
The 14th amendment itself does not empower Congress to determine guilt.
It empowers Congress to “remove such disability.”
Perhaps something else empowers Congress to determine guilt in such cases?
If he were to regain office, they could begin impeachment proceedings to attempt to remove him, if they felt such were warranted.
But it looks like only someone found guilty of having “engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof” would be barred from those offices.
Its not just about 6 Jan - rather his over personality -
He is used to be THE CEO -
I think he had trouble accepting that he needs to work within our Constitutional Republic govt.
That's certainly your own opinion.
The polls and mid-term elections show that the present bullies of the Republican Party cannot win election. This indicates that the actual RINOs are the radical right who gush over Donald Trump as though he were their messiah.
Sure, but she doesn’t get to lie and manipulate information on a committee of congress to pursue a personal vendetta against Trump instead of actually pursuing the truth of what happened on j6.
She is a lying queen of misinformation that has revealed her disgust for people who voted for Trump. Her voters saw her lies and held her accountable and she has been fired.
Yes, the DNC is against truth.
But to be fair, both parties are when that truth isn't on their side.
My point is Trump does not have to have caused the Jan 6 occurance for the Ammendment to be used against him.
All that is needed is for Congress to determine by a simple majority that Trump rebelled against the Constitutiin he had sworn to uphold.
Then it will be challenged in court (of course) and the courts will have to determine to what extent , if any, the Ammendment applies to the Presidency.
Trump is done, politically.
Part of this is his own fault, but most is DNC slander.
I'm saying politically it does not matter at all if Trump caused the Jan 6 occurance.
But yes, the DNC (and the GOP) are not truthful.
Trump and Biden were not truthful during their campaigns. Politics is not about truth.
It is not about guilt.
That's what I mean.
The 14th Ammendment leaves it up to Congress to decide by a simple majority if an action is a rebellion against the US Constitution that the person had sworn to uphold.
It doesn't have to be an illegal act.
For example, if Congress decides that Trump tried to prevent Pence from certifying the election results on Jan 6 then that can be taken as a rebellion against the Constitution he swore to uphold.
If they decide he did so by encouraging a mob to act to stop the certification then that could be taken as an insurrection.
We know Trump rebelled against the US Constitution (at least in word).
But the Ammendment is not very specific.
And we don't know it can be used against a President.
It's just politics.
The 14th Ammendment is just a tool the DNC will use.
I still think they would prefer for Trump to run and this Jan 6 issue is just more baggage to lay on Trump.
She doesn’t own “truth”. Truth is not relative. She lied. She misled. She deceived. Her voters recognized her deceitfulness and fired her. Her political career is over and the house of reps is more conservative without her.
We have a host of amendments, but that does not mean Congress rules on who has violated them.
Just because Congress can essentially override disqualification from holding office (“remove such disability”) in such cases, which may be akin to a presidential pardon in other cases, doesn’t mean they have any other say in the matter, other than to recognize that someone has been found guilty and therefore cannot be sworn into office even if elected.
So, the question remains unanswered.
Where in the amendment is Congress empowered to decide a violation has occurred?
Or perhaps they were empowered to do so via some other legislation?
We do have a lot of Ammendments, and each are unique.
The 14th Ammendment was designed to prevent former members of the Confederacy from serving unless the disqualification was removed by Congress.
Congress could disqualify members of Congress who supported Trump's actions-words on Jan 6.
But they may need the courts for Trump (it has never applied to the Presidency and Trump wasn't in Congress).
Thing is, the far right is not open minded, so if you fit that group, you cannot claim to be open minded on this subject.
What we know is that far right radicals tried to stop the peaceful transfer of power from one President to the next and the former President applauded their illegal behavior.
That may all be true, but it doesn’t change the way Cheney acted on that committee.
I have stated before that some of the things Trump said that day were appalling.
He called Pence a coward. He may have “applauded”, as you say, the protestors at one point. It was nauseating and unbecoming a POTUS. But what he did was not criminal.
What Cheney did was an attempt to make his actions criminal. She used her position as a token repub to mislead, deceive, misrepresent Trumps actions and statements.
She was not looking for the truth. She, and the rest of the committee, had no interest in finding out what happened. Their sole purpose was to find a way to disqualify Trump from running again.
Had they conducted an honest investigation, they may have convinced more people that Trump’s actions made him unfit for office, not because they were criminal, but because he demeaned the office.
The OP is right in the mark. She didn’t trust the American people to look at the truth of j6 and see Trump as unfit to run again. Instead, her deceitfulness and misinformation made Trump look like the victim of another witch hunt where his political enemies abused their positions of power and misled the American people.
Her constituents saw through her lies and voted her out.
Yes, that’s the basic context of that section.
But where is the wording that says Congress also determines who has been an insurrectionist, etc., rather than going by court findings?
Anyway, the discussion regarding this particular case seems to involve prosecution, possibly rather difficult prosecution, to get to that point, not a mere vote of Congress.
To be fair, there are few (if any) in either party who genuinely trust the voters.
Both sides lie to the American people for their gain.
Look at the campaign ads.
They are about what each claims to stand for, but they are also negative claims about their opponents which are typically exaggerated or false.
I tried to count Biden and Trump lies during their campaign but lost track.
I'm not sure which one was more dishonest, but I know neither was honest.
And the reason for their lies was to mislead the American people.
I don't see the wording that Congress determines who has or hadn't rebelled against the Constitution.
I only see that Congress can set aside the consequences in terms of serving.
It will be interesting, though.
Trump did act against the US Constitution.
I don't think that is insurrection.
But he definitely acted against the Constitution he vowed to protect.
But hey, Hilary Clinton was never charged for her crimes.
All is fair in politics and war. ;)