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If "Any Man" Thirst

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Pastor_Bob, Feb 1, 2018.

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  1. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    You will have to take that up with him.
     
  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    You will have to take that up with them.
     
  3. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Inconclusive - see Jerome's post #39
    :)
     
  4. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    And do you not know for what reason the Christ called him “friend?”

    Do you not know that the original language is not using “friend” as a helper, but as an imposter?

    Really?

    Certainly you are not so lacking in understanding as to miss this in the Scriptures?

    For that would not at all be the image I have of your posts.
     
    #44 agedman, Feb 1, 2018
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  5. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    And that is supposed to change the issue?

    Does not the Scripture state Jesus wept?

    Didn’t change that the claim that just anyone thirsts after righteousness.

    Especially considering the clear teaching of Scriptures that not a single person “seeks” or “hungers” outside of those in whom appointment of salvation is purposed.
     
  6. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member

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    If Jesus didn't qualify His statement, then He is obviously speaking about water, right? I don't think so.
     
  7. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member

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    Raising Lazarus and the Valley of Dry Bones have something in common. . .
     
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  8. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Yes. Neither of them has anything to do with regeneration preceding salvation.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL
     
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  9. PrmtvBptst1832

    PrmtvBptst1832 Active Member
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    The story of Lazarus is being used as a spiritual illustration of what Paul wrote concerning the saints who were in Ephesus, that they were “dead in trespasses and sins” and were made “alive together with Christ” (Ephesians 2:1, 5). However, it neither proves nor disproves anything in and of itself. However, it was the same “great might” that was “worked in Christ when he [God] raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places” (Ephesians 1:20). He also "raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:9). With that in mind, it is very unlikely that Paul understood salvation synergistically.
     
    #49 PrmtvBptst1832, Feb 1, 2018
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  10. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Well yeah, none of us are Jesus
    The "voice of the Lord" of Psalm 29 CAN do it.
     
    #50 SheepWhisperer, Feb 1, 2018
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  11. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    I read his post. It is a complete non-sequitur.
     
  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Jon....maybe we can let Jesus tell us what HE meant by it;
    23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

    24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

    25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

    26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

    So Jon....Spiritually dead [eph2] corpses spiritually...who believe, having been quickened by God...shall never die? Do you believe this? Could it be......Both???
     
  13. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    OK.
     
  14. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    InTheLight,

    Actually...it is scriptural truth 1cor2;14, romans 8:7...CANNOT...you say they can....Pastor Bob claims they CAN...scripture says they cannot.

    No..they can do many things, that scripture refers to as dead works...they can be religious like the pope, or any cult....But they can do nothing to get saved on God's terms.... nothing.

    .

    yes...because Paul knew God had elected a multitude among the gentiles...he wrote about it in all His epistles..


    yes...not all israel was of Israel....
    6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

    7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

    8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
     
  15. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    YES...Jesus describes exactly all who will come....
    37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me

    no more. no less.....If you can get anyone to come who the father did not give...go right ahead
     
  16. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    You can take that up with me, Not seek to pit me , or brian, against TC.
    It is both last day resurrection, which his sister knew, but more importantly it does illustrate life from the dead......same as ezk37..can these bones live? like when jesus said is it easier to say rise and and walk, or your sins are forgiven you. Miracles were used to teach.
    here is the teaching there;
    26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
     
  17. Katarina Von Bora

    Katarina Von Bora Active Member

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    Respectfully Pastor BOB, You didn't have any faith. Faith is a gift just as scripture says.



    I do not doubt your salvation, only your assumption of how you came to be saved.
     
  18. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Good evening, brother!

    First of all, I am not seeking to pit you or Brian against TC. I was simply showing that the spiritual corpse analogy doesn't hold any water and that calvinists cannot agree as to what was going on in the Lazarus passage. Before I was asked to quote examples, I figured I'd demonstrate what I was talking about by quoting you and Brian. No harm intended.

    Secondly, if Lazarus is a teaching about Regeneration, then this passage shows that Belief Happens before Regeneration. Do you really want to use this passage to negate your view of Soteriology?

    John 11:25
     
  19. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member

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    First, how do you see spiritual deadness? You can't. With all other healing miracles you could see the condition the person suffered from, but not with spiritual death.

    Second, when Jesus healed the blind, He demonstrated a spiritual truth. He demonstrated that He would make the spiritually blind see. When He healed the deaf, He demonstrated that He could/would open our spiritual ears. When He spoke to the woman at the well, He used water to represent spiritual life. . . All of these physical miracles represented the spiritual reality of a physical state.

    Now, when you come to the raising of Lazarus you choose to see it as a one for one physical reality. You assert that Jesus raised to dead body to show us that He will raise dead bodies. That does not fit with any other miracle He performed. Water to wine, loaves and fishes, walking on water. . . None of the miracles were a physical reality demonstrating a physical reality. They were physical realities demonstrating spiritual realities.
     
    #59 thatbrian, Feb 2, 2018
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  20. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member

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    R.C. Sproul seems to be of the same opinion as I am regarding the meaning of this miracle, so I'm in good company. That doesn't mean I'm correct, but it means I'm not making a wild assertion.

    Ligonier Ministries

    ". . .Dr. Sproul explains how this is a picture of how we were dead in our trespasses, but made alive in Christ."
    If I am wrong regarding the intent of the miracle, we see God acting monergistically. He speaks and His own come. Even though they are spiritually dead or physically dead, they respond to His call.
     
    #60 thatbrian, Feb 2, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
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