Equating a small portion of Paul's heartfelt confession (and that's what it was) in Rom 7 with justification for homosexual behavior or any other pattern of sin is a gross misapplication of wise hermeneutics. This is commonly referred to as eisegesis, reading a meaning into a passage that you wish to find, rather than exegesis, which is discovering the meaning that is honestly there.
If certain "Baptists" don't believe the Bible is God's Holy Word,
Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by LadyEagle, Aug 30, 2002.
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God Bless.........Alex -
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What is the rationalization of Paul's small portion with other scripture that claims just the opposite? Or is it that we are to "overlook" this small part?Click to expand...
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Originally posted by post-it:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Alex:
Originally posted by post-it:
[QB]I hope you don't get sick laughing, post it, but as a liberal you completely missed the point because you don't want to accept the truth. The LEVEL of the sins of homosexuality and murder and rape and adultry......ARE ONE AND THE SAME as per the bible but you probabily threw that part out as man made. :D :D :D Those found guilty of any of these were given the death penality. Check it out for yourself IF that is in a liberals bible. ;)
God Bless..........Alex :DClick to expand...Click to expand...Do you think that homosexuality today should carry the death penalty as it did in the old testament, and if not, how can it really be equal with the act of murder?Click to expand...</font>Click to expand...
God Bless.......Alex
[ September 15, 2002, 11:20 PM: Message edited by: Alex ]Click to expand... -
Tom, Paul makes it clear in this "confession" that there is a difference between sin that you can control and sin that the body (flesh) will do naturally and continuously from now on. But he makes it clear that it is not HIM that is sinning but rather the Flesh. So a homosexual Christian is not sinning, there is no sin for a Christian. There are two entities in one. The spirit that can't sin and is pure for eternity and the body which will continue in some unstoppable sins.
Conflict Here!
In 1 Corinthians, a "brother" may be have turned to a life of sin and will not make it into heaven.
[ September 16, 2002, 12:10 AM: Message edited by: post-it ] -
Originally posted by Alex:
I go with what God says. It isn't about what I think it should be whether it would be the death penalty or not but it should be what God said about it.Click to expand...
Actually that is the overall problem with the moral decay that is growing faster and faster, mans word rather than God's and most of this from the Christian element, is from the liberal's views!Click to expand... -
Post it:
Now you are saying that (I) said it should be the death penatly. That is not what I said: Repeat.It is what God said!!!!!!!!!!!! As a human I CAN'T change God's Word the way I would like it to be. So you don't continue getting twisted, I do not(as a human) think it should be the death penalty but that is not what God said! And as someone else has already said, the NT doesn't show any change of this particular part of the OT. There must be plenty that do think this as a Gay was beat to death in California this week. Now, they should get the death penalty, but again, you don't believe in that either or am I mistaken?
At the least, any Christian of any good standards should at least SHOW these verses in the OT to Homos and let then decide, if they are Christians. It clearly is a WARNING. ;)
As for moral decay, I think you are wrong about cycles of decay. This is a continuing decay that is getting worse and worse, especially now with the overall view that anything is ok. :(
God Bless.........Alex
[ September 16, 2002, 12:08 AM: Message edited by: Alex ] -
Originally posted by Alex:
[QB]Post it:
Now you are saying that (I) said it should be the death penalty. That is not what I said: Repeat.It is what God said!!!!!!!!!!!!Click to expand...
There must be plenty that do think this as a Gay was beat to death in California this week. Now, they should get the death penalty, but again, you don't believe in that either or am I mistaken?Click to expand... -
Tom, Paul makes it clear in this "confession" that there is a difference between sin that you can control and sin that the body (flesh) will do naturally and continuously from now on. But he makes it clear that it is not HIM that is sinning but rather the Flesh. So a homosexual Christian is not sinning, there is no sin for a Christian. There are two entities in one. The spirit that can't sin and is pure for eternity and the body which will continue in some unstoppable sins.Click to expand...
See y'all in a couple of days. I need the time off! Play nice! -
Play nice? Are you kidding? LOL!
Agree with your above post, TomVols. Thanks for clarifying for us.
Actually, could I go even one step further and bring in the point that adultery and fornication also affect a person's spirit? :eek:
Interesting how this thread has made all these twists & turns, but some really good posts here. -
Originally posted by TomVols:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Tom, Paul makes it clear in this "confession" that there is a difference between sin that you can control and sin that the body (flesh) will do naturally and continuously from now on. But he makes it clear that it is not HIM that is sinning but rather the Flesh. So a homosexual Christian is not sinning, there is no sin for a Christian. There are two entities in one. The spirit that can't sin and is pure for eternity and the body which will continue in some unstoppable sins.
Click to expand...
See y'all in a couple of days. I need the time off! Play nice!</font>[/QUOTE]Don't think I hold to the interpretation I just gave, I certainly believe that a Christian can sin and that sin can result in bad circumstances. You had asked for the conflict in a prior post and I gave you the conflict in scripture about his "confession." Paul opened a can of worms with this proclamation that took some time to correct. Not because he was wrong, but because the people misunderstood the concept.
There is a fine line here that makes both extremes (the conflict) correct. We will continue to sin, yet we shouldn't desire to sin at the degree as we did before salvation. We should also have much more control over any desire to sin. Choosing a life of sin can separate us more from Christ, on and on. Yet still, we will sin to some degree because we still are in a battle with the flesh still. Yet we are still saved and that sin will not count against us. -
My Dear friend post it :D
Just curious, but how can two extremes on the same subject both be true? If one says it is black and the other says it is white, it can't be both OR maybe I'm missing something. :confused:
It's kinda like the extremes of Heaven and Hell, one is good and the other is bad.
God Bless.........Alex
PS: Do you believe that Christians will be judged on judgement day for sins comitted AFTER being saved and thus we all will be on a different "plane" in Heaven? The reference is to the jewels in your crown. -
The question right at the beginning started off:
"If certain Baptists don't believe the Bible is God's Holy Word" I would finish the sentence by saying....."then they are apostates who need to repent and be saved." -
Originally posted by Alex:
My Dear friend post it :D
Just curious, but how can two extremes on the same subject both be true? If one says it is black and the other says it is white, it can't be both OR maybe I'm missing something. :confused:
It's kinda like the extremes of Heaven and Hell, one is good and the other is bad.
God Bless.........Alex
PS: Do you believe that Christians will be judged on judgement day for sins comitted AFTER being saved and thus we all will be on a different "plane" in Heaven? The reference is to the jewels in your crown.Click to expand... -
I John 5 seems to be indicating that believing the record is very important. Yes, we are saved by Jesus, but the Bible is the record and if we do not believe the record we are condemned because we made God a liar. If He could not save/preserve all of His Word how do we know if He was able to preserve the salvational issues? Either He preserved it all or not at all and we are still dead in our sins. You can't have a pick and choose Burger King have it your way Bible. It is all or nothing. If you add or take away from it, He is angry and insulted and that causes you BIG trouble.
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Originally posted by Maverick:
I John 5 seems to be indicating that believing the record is very important. Yes, we are saved by Jesus, but the Bible is the record and if we do not believe the record we are condemned because we made God a liar. If He could not save/preserve all of His Word how do we know if He was able to preserve the salvational issues? Either He preserved it all or not at all and we are still dead in our sins. You can't have a pick and choose Burger King have it your way Bible. It is all or nothing. If you add or take away from it, He is angry and insulted and that causes you BIG trouble.Click to expand...
If on the other hand, you believed the Bible to only be inspired without exact wordings from God, and even problems with some meanings, then the preserved editions, even though we don't know which one is the best transalation, is good enough and proves that God has kept his word alive.
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