If God doesn't have a future for the Jews as separate from the present Church, why did God bother making the Abrahamic Covenant and thus separating Gentiles from Jews? Why did Jesus need to be Jewish and the seed of Abraham? Why did not the Godhead just skip this completely useless Abrahamic covenant and program and cut to the chase with presenting Jesus to Abraham and the world that then was? It only makes God look like a fool who can't keep His word if He makes a covenant with Abraham and separates him from Gentiles and then later claims that there was no point in this separation and covenant promise of exaltation and distinction of the Jews...
If God doesn't have a future for the Jews...
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jope, Mar 18, 2017.
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In the New Threads column, all you see is "If God doesn't have a future..." My first thought was "then who does?"
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
The Abrahamic covenant is a promise of Christ. It is fulfilled in the New Covenant in Christ's blood. Many Jews have been saved over the years by trusting in the blood of Christ, and many more may well be, but they will be saved in exactly the same way as everybody else. There is only one people of God (John 10:16; Galatians 3:7-9, 28-29). -
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I sometimes like to think of God having a calendar or diary. On that calendar there is a date ringed round and marked 'Return of Christ. Day of Judgement.' But who knows if there is not another day ringed round and marked 'Send revival to Israel'? It certainly need it. Most Israelis I have met are atheists and Tel Aviv is well-known as the homosexual capital of the Levant.
Who would have thought in 1950, when the Christian missionaries were kicked out of China, that the greatest revival ever seen would happen in that country? Whoever thought that thousands of Moslems would be coming to Christ in the Middle East and Iran today? Why should not the same thing happen in Israel, Britain or the USA?
We should be optimistic about the prospects for the Gospel and be praying for its progress and supporting it with our funds.
But when Christ returns, the Day of Grace will be over. There will be no more opportunity for Jews or anyone else to be saved. Once the door of the Ark was shut, no one else could get on board (Genesis 7:16; cf. Matthew 25:10-12; Luke 13:25-27etc.). -
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
As I assume you've realised, I don't think the Jews do have a future 'as separate from the present Church.' The two have been made one; the middle wall of separation has been broken down; there is one flock with one shepherd and neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female but all are one in Christ Jesus, with God saying, 'Blessed is Egypt My people, and Assyria the work of My hands, and Israel My inheritance' (Isaiah 19:25).
The covenant with Abraham is the promise of the coming Seed. The purpose of God through history has been to make a people for Himself. This He did, starting with Abraham. The purpose of Israel as a nation was to bring the Messiah into a people that had at least an outward knowledge of Jehovah. But right from the start there was a greater purpose: 'And in you [Abraham] all the families of the earth shall be blessed' (Genesis 12:3). This is confirmed, of course, in the NT: 'For the promise that he [Abraham] should be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his Seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith' (Romans 4:13). Therefore the covenant with Abraham always had the New Covenant in mind and is fulfilled in Christ, not in Israel. -
It seems very arbitrary and random of God to make a wall of separation between Jews and Gentiles and then claim there was no reason for this separation when the seed came. It also seems very foolish and bizarre to find out that the Abrahamic covenant was in fact all a big lie and He won't fulfill the covenant for the Jews in exalting them over the Gentiles. This is what covenant theology teaches and this is what dispensational theology abhors.
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Perhaps you missed what I said about the purpose of God in raising up Israel. I wrote, "The purpose of Israel as a nation was to bring the Messiah into a people that had at least an outward knowledge of Jehovah." It was in the purpose of God that the prophesies concerning the Christ should be known, also His human descent from Abraham and David. To accomplish that, it was necessary for the Lord Jesus to be born into Israel. But that purpose has been achieved, and the mystery of God's greater purpose has now been revealed: '.....Which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by His Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets; that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the Gospel' (Ephesians 3:5-6).
If you would like me to expand on this a little further, I can certainly do so, but not right now because it's supper-time in Britain. -
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Zechariah 8:23 NET
The Lord who rules over all says, ‘In those days ten people from all languages and nations will grasp hold of—indeed, grab—the robe of one Jew and say, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you. -
Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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"I will bless those who bless you, but the one who treats you lightly I must curse, and all the families of the earth will bless one another by your name" (Gen 12:3, NET).The covenant was not made to anyone else. I'm sure other people were blessed and cursed back then too. Why does God make Jesus the descendant of Abraham? Why not just make Jesus the descendant of Shem?
Genesis 17:7 says that God will be Abraham and his descendants' God. -
Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
"Do you not say, 'There are still four months and then comes the harvest'? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are already white for harvest" (John 4:35). Don't waste your life waiting for some mythical event in the future. Look at what amazing things God is doing throughout the world, support it, and get praying that God will do something equally wonderful in America, Britain- yes, and Israel. -
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I would like to know if you believe that Paul teaches that Jews and Gentiles are on equal footing in Christ, which is what you appear to be saying, and if so, whether you think he's right. I look forward to receiving your answer.
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