The Abrahamic Covenant was instututed by God as the means by which he would bring the blessing of salvation unto all who would qualify as Abraham did, by receiving the promised Messiah yeshua, so that all who place faith in Him will be saved!
If God doesn't have a future for the Jews...
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jope, Mar 18, 2017.
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And look! I said that I believe, with the church fathers, that the ekklesia exists on earth during the tribulation! You claimed that I did not believe this, quoting their beliefs of the church on earth during the tribulation. I specifically stated that I believe this with them. What was that about misrepresenting beliefs? -
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(2) It is true that, in the express terms of the covenant with Abraham, obedience is not stated as a condition. But that obedience was presupposed is clearly indicated by two facts. The one is that obedience is the precondition of blessing under all circumstances...The second fact is that in the case of Abraham the duty of obedience is particularly stressed. In Gen. xviii. 17f it is plainly stated that, through His choice of Abraham, God proposed to bring into being, by pious nurture, a righteous seed which would 'keep the way of the Lord,' in order that as a result and reward of such obedience 'the Lord may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.' (p. 33).
"But if the Abrahamic covenant was unconditional why is Esau excluded from the blessings of the covenant?" (p. 35).
Allis is implying that the Abrahamic covenant is conditional.
(1) As to the seed, it is to be observed that the very words which appear in the covenant...are used of the nation of Israel in the time of Solomon...This would indicate that the promise was regarded as fulfilled in this respect in the golden age of the Monarchy...Allis says that the Jews lost the land because of disobedience because the Abrahamic covenant is conditional. The covenant won't have a fulfillment in the future: it was fulfilled historically.
(2) As to the land, the dominion of David and of Solomon extended from the Euphrates to the River of Egypt...Israel did come into possession of the land promised to the patriarchs. She possessed it, but not 'fore ever.' Her possession of the land was forfeited by disobedience...it can be regarded as having been fulfilled centuries before the first advent... (pp. 57-8).
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Thanks for giving me those pages from Alliss. :) I will reply in more depth later on, but may I ask, have you read my post #39? I may enable you to see where I'm coming from even if you disagree with me (which you will! :Cool ). -
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There was a separation insofar as God chose to deliver salvation through Israel. By necessity, when you choose one thing it is separated from the others. This is inherent in the choosing. But insofar as the Abrahamic covenant is concerned, the blessing (salvation) is not to the Jews but to the world:
Genesis 12:1-3 Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you; And I will make you a great nation, And I will bless you, And make your name great; And so you shall be a blessing; And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."
This is not a Covenant separating the Jews and Gentiles. As God builds a nation through which the Messiah will come, sure there is a separation. But it is not the point of the Abrahamic Covenant to separate Jews and Gentiles. It is to make a people as a special possession of God through redemption. It looks to the Seed, in whom the promise is fulfilled. Not Israel as a nation, but Israel as the "true Israel" in whom Gentiles will be grafted. The covenant does not separate, but includes. -
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite SupporterBecause of the sovereign will of God. 'Jacob I have loved and Esau I have hated.' There were ever so many reasons why God might have hated Esau; the wonder is that He should have loved Jacob......or me.
Abraham was called by a holy God to holiness (Genesis 17:1), but he was not called because of his holiness (Joshua 24:2-3) and I see nowhere where obedience is made a condition of the covenant. God called him and persevered with his various failings as He does with you and me, so no, the Abrahamic covenant was not conditional. It is a promise of the Christ who died for sinners.
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Martin Marprelate Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Have a good one JonC :) -
Gen. 15:5 KJV
And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
Gen. 13:16 KJV
And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.
Colossians 1:16 says that there are thrones created for Christ in heaven and on earth. See also Ephesians 1:10. Paul teaches that Christians (of this dispensation) have no lasting inheritance here on earth (Philipp. 3:20; Eph. 2:6-7; Gal. 4:26; etc.). Jesus says that the Jews inherit earth (Mt 5:5; Rom. 15:8; Gen. 12:7--to thy seed, Christ, I will give this land; etc.). -
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You have a good day as well. :)
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