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Featured If we are ever spiritually dead we would be dead indeed

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by MB, Oct 31, 2019.

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  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    By the way his position of uh not being spiritually dead prior to Christ is an anomaly.
     
    #21 Revmitchell, Nov 5, 2019
  2. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Yes but not where we need to be made alive in Christ. I suppose you forgot what you said originally.
    Do you know when you were made alive in Christ?
    MB
     
    #22 MB, Nov 5, 2019
  3. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Yes I am aware. I know you, and others who are on the "other side" are reasonable with your beliefs and don't just disagree with "our side" because we are the ones saying something. When you disagree with us you at least put logical reasoning (for the most part ;) ) behind your position.
     
    #23 Reformed1689, Nov 5, 2019
  4. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Does Ephesians 2:5 say we are made alive with Christ or not?
     
    #24 Reformed1689, Nov 5, 2019
  5. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Yes but it does not say we need to be as you have previously claimed. When were you made alive in Christ.
     
    #25 MB, Nov 5, 2019
  6. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    You get way too caught up on some things. If we were dead, we need to be made alive. We are made alive when we are saved. The POINT of this though is to PROVE that we ARE spiritually dead before regeneration, which you claimed we are not.
     
    #26 Reformed1689, Nov 5, 2019
  7. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    For your reading pleasure.
    Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
    Oh great master of the scriptures please explain James claiming that with out the spirit the body is dead. If in fact we are literally dead.
    MB
     
    #27 MB, Nov 5, 2019
  8. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    The problem as I see it isn't what I believe so much as you ignoring what you do not wish to answer. No where have you shown where scripture says we need to be made alive. To be made alive in Christ is to have eternal life. This is life eternal life. When were you made alive in Christ?
    MB
     
    #28 MB, Nov 5, 2019
  9. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    David;
    Should I assume that you don't know when you were made alive in Christ?
    MB
     
    #29 MB, Nov 5, 2019
  10. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    What is the opposite of alive?
     
    #30 Reformed1689, Nov 5, 2019
  11. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    No the problem, clearly, is that you want to argue for sake of arguing. You attack into absurdity just so you don't have to agree with someone who does not agree with you or you don't like. It just makes you look foolish.
     
    #31 Reformed1689, Nov 5, 2019
  12. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Did I claim or did I question it. You are unable to give a proper explanation you ignore the scripture I gave you James 2:26 The reason for my questioning.
    MB
     
    #32 MB, Nov 5, 2019
  13. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    If you can't answer my questions why should I answer yours?
    MB
     
    #33 MB, Nov 5, 2019
  14. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Actually this is a one sided argument you never want to answer my questions I suspect that you can't answer because you just do not know. and you do know what I'm talking about. By avoiding the question, proves you don't know.
    MB
     
    #34 MB, Nov 5, 2019
  15. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    No, your question is irrelevant to the topic. It's talking about two totally different things.
     
    #35 Reformed1689, Nov 5, 2019
  16. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    [Jas 2:26 KJV] 26 For as the body without the spirit [G4151] is dead, [G3498] so faith without works is dead also.

    The KJV translates Strong's G3498 in the following manner: dead (132x).

    Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

    properly

    one that has breathed his last, lifeless

    deceased, departed, one whose soul is in heaven or hell

    destitute of life, without life, inanimate

    metaph.

    spiritually dead

    destitute of a life that recognizes and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins

    inactive as respects doing right

    destitute of force or power, inactive, inoperative


    The word “dead” in James 2:26 is used metaphor.

    Definition of metaphorically | Dictionary.com

    Metaphor: a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance, as in “A mighty fortress is our God.”
     
    #36 Wesley Briggman, Nov 5, 2019
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  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    False teachers read false doctrine into vague phrases.

    We are conceived spiritually dead because we were "made sinners." Thus unholy, thus separated from God.

    And to be spiritually dead results in limitations. Being spiritually dead we could do nothing by ourselves to make us holy and therefore able to unite with our holy God. False doctrine adds we cannot seek God at any time or fully trust in the gospel. But there is no support for this man-made addition to the limitations of being spiritually dead.
     
    #37 Van, Nov 5, 2019
  18. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Actually the reverse is true Paul uses it as a metaphor not James.
    Calvinist have claimed that in order for man to understand the gospel he must be regenerated. If man does not understand the gospel then he cannot have faith before Salvation. Faith come by hearing it is not some gift that is given to man. The gift is Salvation in eph. 2:8-9.
    MB
     
    #38 MB, Nov 5, 2019
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  19. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    This is what I mean you don't know the answer.
    MB
     
    #39 MB, Nov 5, 2019
  20. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure how you get that from me saying it is irrelevant (because it is) but anyways...

    James 2:26 is referring to the fact that if the spirit of a person is not within a body the physical body is dead. That has nothing to do with being spiritually dead. I know this must be hard for you to grasp but that is why I said it is irrelevant because we are talking about two TOTALLY different things.
     
    #40 Reformed1689, Nov 5, 2019
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