1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured If we are ever spiritually dead we would be dead indeed

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by MB, Oct 31, 2019.

  1. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    262
    Faith:
    Baptist
    David
    You refuse to answer because you can't and you know it. It is not irrelevant.
     
  2. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    262
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Hypocrites are always out.
    MB
     
  3. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,903
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Um, you realized I answered in the post directly in front of this one? Post #40.
     
  4. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2018
    Messages:
    5,849
    Likes Received:
    1,332
    Faith:
    Baptist
    1) I agree.

    But to me, it's far better than almost everything I've seen in the English, to date.
    Personally, I cannot think of any English translation that I would recommend more for its accuracy, than the AV.

    2) Agreed.
    Those are two of the passages that come to mind.

    As for the "KJV" being "outdated", I think that it is often thought of this way because the English it was translated into, has become more and more "distanced" with time.
    However, that does not mean that it cannot be understood.

    I've read it all my life, and it has only become more and more familiar, like a favorite blanket, over that time.
    Yes, I agree that an updated translation would solve quite a few minor misunderstandings about the text.

    Still, I understood that "quickened" = "made alive" some years ago, and I didn't even need a newer translation in my own language to tell me that.
    All I had to do was look up "quickened" in the dictionary, and use that definition.;)


    Side note:
    In La Sainte Bible, Louis Segond edition ( French TR translation ), the phrase "quickened together with Him " ( Greek, "συζωοποιέω", transliterated into English as " syzōopoieō " and meaning " he-together-makes-alive " ), is " rendus à la vie avec lui ", or "returned to life with Him" in Colossians 2:13.



    As I see it, persistence and a love of ( and desire to know ) the Bible thoroughly ( in whatever language it's written in ) are all that's really needed.:)
     
    #44 Dave G, Nov 5, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
  5. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    262
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No that isn't what the question was about It's alright David.
    MB
     
  6. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,903
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So, as usual, you ignore the substance of the post because you can't argue against it. Typical.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,013
    Likes Received:
    3,649
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Honestly I have no idea what you are trying to say here. That is because I am giving you the benefit of the doubt otherwise at face value you do not appear to have a grasp on this issue at all.

    Death without any context simply means to be separated. Spiritual death means to be spiritually separated from God. In other words no relationship. Literally no relationship.

    Our use of the word death when we physically die does not define the word death it only gives it context.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    262
    Faith:
    Baptist
    My Point is that many Calvinist claim that man is unable to respond to the gospel because there spirit is dead. They mean it is literally dead not separation from God. If the spirit is literally dead as they describe death as in inanimate. Then the body is dead also because the body can not live with out it's spirit
    Of course I can agree that man is separated from God before Salvation but this separation does not mean man cannot respond to the gospel message. No where in scripture does it ever say man is unable to respond to the gospel.
    MB
     
  9. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,903
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And, as @Revmitchell pointed out to you, you do not have a grasp on this issue.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    262
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If it makes you happy to think what ever you want, by all means do so. I'm done answering your questions and speaking to you at all. I will not be drawn in to a conversation with you anymore.
    MB
     
  11. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,903
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You didn't answer a question, I answered YOUR question and then you ignored my answer.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,013
    Likes Received:
    3,649
    Faith:
    Baptist
    In my experience, to include this board, it is about the totality of depravity not the literalness of the spiritual death.

    I disagree with them but we need to be fair to their argument.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    262
    Faith:
    Baptist
    In what way have I been unfair?
    MB
     
  14. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,013
    Likes Received:
    3,649
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I doubt it was your intention but I wanted to clear up the issue. There is no depth of dead. Dead is dead. There is depth to depravity and what you are attempting to address should be dealt with in the area of depravity not death.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  15. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,466
    Likes Received:
    450
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Then, Physical Death following Spiritual Death, is The Second Death.
     
  16. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    706
    Faith:
    Baptist
    As I understand spiritual death is the conscious state of the damned in life and in hell. In this condition we cannot know God in any good way. And our spirit is enslaved to the flesh. But for some, God circumcises our hearts (provides the new birth) freeing us from slavery to the flesh and making us alive unto him.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    6,890
    Likes Received:
    262
    Faith:
    Baptist
    How many Calvinist minds have you changed?
    MB
     
  18. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    9,903
    Likes Received:
    1,820
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You are getting so caught up on Calvinism for no reason. You do realize Calvinists are not the only ones who believe we were spiritually dead before salvation right? I'm sure @Revmitchell and others believe this too.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2017
    Messages:
    1,312
    Likes Received:
    391
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The second death mentioned in revelation is a result of dying physically while being spiritually dead. Believers who die physically while having spiritual life do not suffer "second death".

    What is the second death? | GotQuestions.org
    Question: "What is the second death?"

    "Answer:
    The second death is mentioned on multiple occasions in the book of Revelation and is synonymous with the lake of fire. It is a “death” in that it is a separation from God, the Giver of life. It is called the “second” one because it follows physical death.

    Revelation 21:8 explains the second death in the most detail: “The cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars – their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”"
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,466
    Likes Received:
    450
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Yes, so the First, Pysical Life, contains Physical Life.


    That Physical Life is Spiritually Dead.

    Then, if the Spiritually Dead, Die, Pysically, they are Twice Dead.

    The Second Death.
     
Loading...