[GE: If you're a Jew, DHK, Jesus is none of yours; and if you're a ~Gentile believer~, DHK, the Resurrected Christ of God is none of yours BY THE SAME RULE OF LAW! Therefore, are you an Israelite DHK, because only if you are, has God Raised the Christ whom you have crucified, for YOU!
For thus saith the SCRIPTURE]
<<You play games of semantics.>>
No games, DHK, This,
"Of this man (David's) seed, God, according to His Promise (God's Covenant) raised up unto Israel, a Saviour, Jesus."
In Heb. 4, the Sabbath points to rest,
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Gerhard Ebersoehn, Jul 24, 2016.
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Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
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Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
1) There is nothing about ~watches~ said or ~designated~, only about WHEN the Master may come and find the “servants”, —“workers”, “BUSY WATCHING” = “VIGILANT” = “WORKING”, and not sleeping on the job like an untrustworthy labourer / servant during WORKING hours mainly DAYLIGHT hours. (“The night is coming on when no one works.”)
2) The Master commanded “the porter to watch, Watch ye! For ye know NOT WHEN the Master cometh … Watch ye, lest coming suddenly the Master find you sleeping—and what I say unto you, I say unto ALL (the servants / workers), WATCH = WORK = don’t sleep while you are supposed to WORK.”
3) Therefore the day-cycle of a workers’ day is the main factor which—to use your words, ~designates~ “~transition between the different watches~”. Which means the Master may come “on the one hand either [eh] late day [opse] or [eh] until midnight [mesonuktion Accusative], or, [eh] in the cock-crow morning of night [alektorophohnias] or [eh] early morning until noon [prohї] on the other hand”. In other words (versus your conclusion), ‘opse’ and ‘mesonuktion’ are reciprocally ~inclusive~, while ‘alektorophohnias’ and ‘prohї’ are reciprocally ~inclusive~. -
Or maybe you are from Dan or Manasseh, the two that went into idolatry and are missing in Revelation 7. Which tribe Gerhard? You are not of Israel, and never were! -
Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
Exactly!! The warning is against day-time sleeping! Thanks! -
Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
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Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
I know much better than you I won’t find one. And you know just as well as I do why. Because all New Testament Greek scholars are Sunday believing— Sunday Resurrection believing. And I’m not. Even the Sabbatharians of the present age are Sunday Resurrection believing. And I am their sole adversary of the present age.
I have TWO Sureties for my stance, The Word of God, written, the Scriptures, and the Word of God Alive, Jesus Christ. Jesus does not agree with what I just said. The Scriptures agree with what Jesus said.
Thus you, claiming. “~Opse is not used "from midday to midnight the late-of-day" and proii is not used "from midnight to miday the early-of-day"~” is making a laughingstock of yourself and I have all—ALL—, ~lexicographic witness~ in the world, to prove that you do. This claim of yours is your own imagination at work rather than scholarship of any sort. Because the united opinion of scholarly research is that ‘Opse’ is used ‘from midday to midnight the late-of-day’; and ‘prohї’ is used ‘from midnight to midday the early-of-day’ while neither ‘opse’ nor ‘prohї’ necessarily or only, ~designates~, “~the four watches of the night~”, but rather, ‘opse’ not necessarily or only but normally and usually designates ‘from midday to midnight the late-of-day’; and ‘prohї’ not necessarily or only but normally and usually designates ‘from midnight to midday the early-of-day’.
Gauranteed. Challenge me with contrary quotes from New Testament or Classic or Late or whatever Greek scholars!! Please do! -
Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
Asking me what I am talking, but cock-sure telling me what I talk. Now how much would that make sense to you?
Never mind. I can understand this of what you say, "~opse proves that it can be translated "after" the end of the Sabbath~".
What I cannot understand though, is how ‘opse’ proves that ‘opse’ can be translated "after".
What you obviously can’t understand though, is that if "~opse proves that it can be translated "after" the end of the Sabbath~", the concept as such of ‘after’, requires that ‘the sabbath’ must be Accusative, but it is not; it is Genitive which as such indicates what ‘opse’ of itself being an Adjective requires, that “Sabbath” must agree and also mean, “late on”— naturally. Therefore, where’s your Accusative for Matthew 28:1 to mean ‘after the Sabbath’? It’s nowhere! Thanks once more!
Again, the same is valid re your alleged ‘after the Sabbath ON the First Day’— you would need “the First Day” to be not the Accusative, “eis Mian sabbatohn” it is, but a Dative, ‘tehi Miai sabbatohn’, or the Genitive, ‘Mias sabbatohn’, PLUS you would have to get clean riddance of the Preposition ‘eis’.
But you can’t do any of these things … he he he he he… -
Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
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Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
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Would it be fair and or correct to say that in Matt 28:1 there are a minimum of four Sabbaths spoken of. And for my four, I am going with the end of the 15th of Abib, Sabbath and the weekly Sabbath, ie Sabbaths and the dawning toward the Sabbath to Sabbath of the next week, ie Sabbaths.
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Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
it is Genitive which as such indicates what ‘opse’ of itself being an Adverb requires, that “Sabbath” must agree and also mean, “late on”— naturally.
Apologies! -
Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
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Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
Therefore, ~the 15th of Abib~ was indeed a "great sabbath", "That Day high day of sabbath" of the passover. It was not ~the weekly Sabbath~ though, but when Jesus was our Passover Lamb of God, "That-Day-great-day" of the passover, fell on, and in fact "was, the Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath" or Sixth Day of the week ['Friday'].
Therefore there are only two 'sabbaths' spoken of in the four Gospels, 1) the passover's 'sabbath' beginning in Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 John 19:31 Luke 23:50 and ending in John 19:42 Luke 23:54-56a; and
2) "the Sabbath according to the (Fourth) Commandment the women began to rest" on in Luke 23:56b; and on which the Jews "the [Sabbath] morning after The Preparation [after 'Friday']", "came and secured the grave, BUT LATE ON THE SABBATH there was a great earthquake" when Jesus "In the ending of the Sabbath", i.e., "Late on the Sabbath before the First Day of the week", rose from the dead. And when this “Sabbath was over”, the two Marys “and Salome bought spices so that when they would go they might anoint his body.” Mark 16:1. -
In Matt 28:1 isn't the Greek word σαββάτων used twice and both times it is in the plural? The second time isn't is used in the same manner as say 1 Cor 16:2? Why is it plural? I assumed it would be plural to imply on the first day following the Sabbath unto another Sabbath, ie, the first day of the week or day one between Sabbaths. I may be wrong and you can tell me why it is plural in both places.
Question? Why would it be plural the first time it is used in Matt 28:1? I assumed it was plural for stating, toward the end of a Sabbath preceded by a Sabbath not the weekly Sabbath.
Again correct me if I am wrong for as I said I know, no Greek. -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Furthermore, the consistent practice from the first to the fourth century is no mere accident. Just as the Old Covenant had a "sign" of the covenant which was the "seventh" day so the sign of the new covenant is the "first" day of the wee and this is made clear in Leviticus where new covenant types are consistently characterized by the first day sabbaths instead of 7th day sabbaths.
Your welcome to your opinion but you have little to support it. Romans 14-15 deal with things neither right nor wrong in themselves rather than Biblical precepts or practices. Colosians 2;16 deals with the Old Testament Sabbaths. The first day of the week is not part of the Old Covenant legalism that surrounds the seventh day Sabbath. It celebrates the resurrection of Christ and points forward to a new creation which is an eternal eighth day wherein there is no sin. -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I said, opse is used by Christ for the time period that occurs AFTER the end of the preceding day which was the first watch of the night that occurred between 6-9 p.m. That application of opse to 6-9 pm proves it can be used to mean a period of time "AFTER" the ending of the previous day. If it could not, then Jesus could not have used it to describe 6-9 pm. That simple and that clear. -
Gerhard Ebersoehn Active MemberSite Supporter
Dear Percho, without knowing you know more Greek than you knew. All languages not realising use Greek. And certainly one of the most universally adopted usages of the Greek language is that of the concept of the 'week', the seven days cycles NAMED AFTER ITS MAIN DAY, the Seventh Day of the week the "Sabbath". The Christian era since its start has known the ‘week’ as the result NOT of the Hebrew religion or Scriptures, but as the result of the CHRISTIAN, New Testament religion and Scriptures.
The Sabbath Day is the last day of the seven days designating "the week". The "week" in Greek consists of "on Day 1 of the Sabbath(-week)", [‘tehi Miai sabbatohn’ Plural, or ‘tehs Mias Sabbatou’ Singular] until "on the Sabbath(-of-the-week)" [Sabbatohn].
Before the Christian era the word 'seven' [hebdomos] was used for 'the week', but the word 'Sabbath' began to be used in the first century era of New Testament Vernacular (Koineh) Greek for the "sabbath-week". Due to Christian usage of Greek rather than the influence of Hebrew, the word 'sabbatohn' / 'sabbatou', became the Greek Idiom for the seven-days-cycle with “the day of the Sabbath” or “the Seventh Day of the Sabbath" its main day, adopted and applied in every day life universally.
Refer A.T. Robertson, “Semitic colouring”, “Hebrew influence”, “Numbers”. See also previous posts of mine on BB.
So, <<Why is it plural? I assumed it would be plural to imply on the first day following the Sabbath unto another Sabbath, ie, the first day of the week or day one between Sabbaths. I may be wrong and you can tell me why it is plural in both places.>> I think that you are 100% correct, dear Percho!
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