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Featured Infallible Word of God?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Salty, Jun 21, 2018.

  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    complete heresy
     
  2. ehbowen

    ehbowen Member

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    Actually, that's quite close to what happened back in the days of Noah. The difference now is that no one with the capability to make a change in the sequence of events (which includes God, Satan, and possibly a very few of the elite angels) sees any way to improve the ultimate outcome of events by changing those. Which means that we see them as being in the past; immutable. The future, on the other hand, is the zone in which it is possible to propose and make improvements for the benefit of all. What we see as this present moment is where our choices are made and affirmed...our "final answer", as it were.

    The reason the past cannot be changed is because, at least from a sufficient distance into the future, there is no one who wants to change it.
     
  3. ehbowen

    ehbowen Member

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    All right, I just now looked up and read the Wikipedia article on Open Theism including its comparison table against Reform Theology. They do have a few points, although I can't agree with them completely.

    The thing is, though, in my own personal understanding, both the Reformed and Open theologies eventually converge from a viewpoint sufficiently far into the future. So I'm not going to say one's "right" and the other "wrong"...just that both need to be more complete.
     
  4. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Hmm ehbowen, your answers are incomplete. To mine you did not say you thought my proposition was possible.
     
    #44 HankD, Jun 25, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
  5. ehbowen

    ehbowen Member

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    I don't think that the proposition which you put forth was/is possible from THIS point in time, because it is now in the immutable past. However, while the events were still taking shape and finalizing, it is quite possible that the alternative you propose was explored...those undo and redo keys...until the Father determined that what we now know as the Incarnation was the best—indeed, the only—way forward.

    A better example for your illustration would, in my mind, be the book of Revelation. This speaks of events which are, to us, still future. This implies that if someone can propose a way forward which is better, more righteous, and more holy then God will be willing to listen and act accordingly. And I believe that he is in fact doing so. I see the Revelation as being God's "worst case scenario"...it is what God was prepared to do and would have done if necessary. But scattered throughout the book you find the phrase, "...and men did not repent." Which means that, if men DO repent, God has every reason and justification to turn from the destruction he had planned.

    I'm not saying it's certain. But I am saying that I do believe it is possible...and that I am conducting myself accordingly.
     
  6. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    I believe you are hedging. "immutable past" or "sequence of events"? They seem not to be compatible but used where they best suit the intended purpose.

    "The reason the past cannot be changed is because, at least from a sufficient distance into the future, there is no one who wants to change it"
    Not as far as I am concerned.
     
  7. ehbowen

    ehbowen Member

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    But they are compatible; the difference is perspective. I want to take a hypothetical case, that of a grandfather who accidentally kills his young grandson by backing over him in the driveway. I'm going to ignore what was probably going on in the background, between guardian angels and demonic forces and etc., and focus in on the events from the grandfather's perspective.
    1. The event happens. The grandfather is brokenhearted and desperately wishes that things could have been different...understandably so.
    2. Time passes and the grandfather comes to the point where God is able...not to undo the foundational past, but to generate a new past in which, just before the accident, the grandfather realizes...gets a "flash" of...what is about to happen. He stops, and his grandson's life is spared (How many times have you gotten a flash of something at the last moment which averts a potentially disastrous outcome? It happens.). That timeline progresses along in parallel with the original, foundational one.
    3. At some point in the far distant future (we're talking Kingdom of Heaven, here) it become possible to converge the two timelines. The grandfather has the memory of both pasts and is able to remember both what happened when the accident was averted at the last second and also the memory of the tragedy...but, if the tragedy was not averted and was allowed to happen originally, it means that God had a compelling reason for doing so; otherwise it would have been, "Boy, that was a close shave, wasn't it!" The grandfather will learn what that compelling reason was and exactly why God was moved to permit the tragedy to occur.
    God wants to give us chances to demonstrate that we love and trust him in the here-and-now even when we don't understand what is going on. Remember the opening of the Book of Job...God didn't hate Job, he wasn't out to get Job; in point of fact he was singling him out as a shining example of what a man could and should be. When tragedy strikes our own lives it is very possible that such a scenario is playing out in the background whether we realize it or not.
     
  8. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Look ehbowen bro, we all (as far as i know) struggle to make sense of this "mystery" or "riddle" of life (whichever applies).
    I went through both phases until faith came.

    Now the faith umbrella comes in many colors and hues.There are probably as many permutations as there are believers so I respect your view and yes even your defense mechanisms (I have plenty of my own). I hope my criticisms don't sound judgmental of your persona. Your debating skills - maybe :)
    your reasoning seems detached from reality and too complex for my weary brain.

    Blessings to you and yours.
     
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  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Would it be Open Theism?
     
  10. ehbowen

    ehbowen Member

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    I really wasn't even aware of Open Theism until you brought it up yesterday. Suppose it is; does that automatically disqualify it?

    I'd rather be right in God's eyes than be pure in the estimation of someone's theological camp.
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Open Theism basically states that God has decided to become part of his creation now, and so while he knows all that can be known up to right now, he is part of the flow of time and history, so has self blinded Himself to actually know future, as he learns and adapts to it same process that we do!
    Rank Heresy
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Open theism describes a false god, not the God of the Bible!
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    if God needs to know anything else in order to make up His mind, that is a false god, and God could have intervened and changed to outcome of the Fall, but He chose to have it happen period!
     
  14. ehbowen

    ehbowen Member

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    Obviously you don't know God the way I know God.
     
  15. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki Well-Known Member
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    Can you actually prove from the scriptures your “God” actually even exists? Your ideas are not from Gods word. You are a false teacher.
     
  16. ehbowen

    ehbowen Member

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    Sure. Proverbs chapter 8.

    Like I said earlier, she's cute.
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I know the real one, the One described to us in the scriptures!
    Who was jesus?
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    there is no "she" for God...
    Who was jesus per you, how are we to be saved then?
     
  19. ehbowen

    ehbowen Member

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    Better be sure about that.

    Her big brother.

    We are saved through the atoning propitiatory sacrifice of Jesus Christ, who is the One Way of salvation for ALL who have sinned. We surrender our lives to his authority and are adopted by his Father into his family. We demonstrate the validity and the purity of our decision by walking in the authority and keeping the commandments of Jesus in accordance with the Scriptures. The Holy Spirit indwells us and gives us the ability to do so, and convicts us of sin, righteousness and judgment if we go astray.
     
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God is NEVER said to be female, Jesus knows God as His heavenly Father period, and so your definition of the person of God and how he/she is limited means that you know a false One!
     
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